Server 'Death' - the end game to end games.

[hoik 415]

Server 'Death' - the end game to end games.

This idea is aimed at creating the 'realistic' outcome of excessive PvP (eg: the death of humanity) while giving tools/systems to struggle against this outcome. I have tried to keep it fun, intuitive and asexual.

(My thought was directed this cinlusion by these two posts on creating 'family' : http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=27409 , http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=22300 )

THE COMPLEX VERSION

The complex version involves children as they are the key for human survival - This is a FACT (though I look forward to see how people disagree :) )

For clarity my view of a "child" (in regards to DayZ) is around 12-14yrs old, they are old enough to handle themselves but still vulnrable. If PvP of characters this age is too contrversial for some (mostly the cencors I think) the age could be 'offically' 18 (because thats a nice clean line in the sand for some...)

HOW TO 'have' CHILDREN

A ratio (1:10 maybe)of players will be randomly chosen to spawn as a child.

The Debuff

A child is requires to eat times 'X' (this is ballancing) more often than 'adults'. I think this debuff is most benificial for encouraging group activity around a child.

Of course a child could have many debuff's (eg: can only use sidearms effectivly, less stamina etc.) but for simplicity I am sticking with the ONE.

The Buff

The buff a child will have is to be the only 'character' in game to designate other players as 'friendly' - This turns off friendly fire (FF) for the child against those that they put 100% faith/trust in (but not for the trustee against the child). For me this is realistic because only a CHILDS MIND can truly place this much trust in another person.

THIS IS THE ONLY GUARANTEE OF NON PVP IN THE GAME - THIS IS WHERE ITS VALUE LIES

Of course a child could have many buff's (eg: give a health boost to friendly , longer food timer etc) but for simplicity I am sticking with the ONE.

Opt-Out

For those that would hate this you can opt out by respawn/sucide, but will be bringing humanity one step closer to extinction (I know, you really don't care :) )- I don't hate you for this. If pure PvP is your goal, do it - I want you to! You bring the balance to the game! (you are darth vader and I am luke skywalker!)

So this is how 'children' could be implemented into the game. I think a ratio of 1:10 is nice because it would resonable (I hope) to think that at LEAST 1 in 10 people who play the game do so as somthing else than a sandbox deathmatch.

HOW CAN CHILDREN SHAPE THE FATE OF A SERVER?

They'll do it in the exact same way that they shape humanities fate in real life.

HOW

All that is required is a very simple 'ticket' system that is associated to a 'Child' character.

EG: ChildTicket = 50 and on a child spawning the ChildTicket = ChildTicket - 2

So then when the "Ticket" counter reaches 0 no more children will spawn - and by extention all players that now die do so FOREVER (they are locked out of that server) till the last man is left and then the server is resets. THIS IS PERMA-DEATH!

Players can logout but are then LOCKED OUT of the server till it resets, if they logout they leave an empty slot that anyone can log into (and then the same rules apply to them) - but if they DIE that slot is removed till the server resets.

A SIDE NOTE: There should be no cudos for being the last man alive (stats/leaderboard) because this IS THE END OF HUMANITY - there will be no one left to brag to!

EXTENTION OF THE IDEA

To save the last two people hunting down each other across 200km2 + area I'd propose an imediate count down timer when child 'tickets' hit zero (5hrs maybe) till the server resets.

HOW CHILDREN CAN SAVE US (For those that WANT to save us )

'Child' characters cost 2 tickets per spawn but also have the ability to ADD TICKETS to the counter.

It'll work like this:

The game checks the current life expectancy of players on the server WHEN THE CHILD SPAWNS.

If the child lives 2* the average life expectance (ALE) then they add 1 point to counter.

If the child lives 4* the ALE they add an additional 2 points to the counter and graduate to adulthood - that is they become a 'normal' character and loose all buffs/debuffs.

By associating points to ALE this will (hopefully) ballance the difficulty of maintaining child 'tickets' on chaotic/quite servers (that is you will have to live less time on a server with a low ALE and a longer time on one with a high ALE to gain points )

This is 'logical' as well as have great side effects, such as:

- being a great way to prevent child "hording" for buffs

- makes being a child a temporary inconvenience.

- could lead to groups banding and disbanding because of a child.

THE SIMPLE VERSION

This type of 'ticket' loss/gain could be implemented to be effected by everyone in the game, without the need for 'child' mechanics, but would need to be ballanced differently and IMO would lack alot of the 'moral/social' impact of having children in the game.

IN CONCLUSION

The best thing this would give to the game is a least ONE definate over arching END GAME, make group play vital, dynamic and fun for civil minded players and retain and enhance chaos for those who dont want to take the game so seriously.

YOU CHOOSE to save or damn humanity!

[zHDFXz 1]

i like the idea that would be cool. you could have a npc child and u could be able tostore stuff with your kid and switch to there pov nice ideas im 100% on this

[hoik 415]

No NPC's - players will BE the child, they are not a companion like a dog. Glad you like it but I don't know if you really understand what Im driving at with this idea. Please re-read the post :) .

[Deviant (DayZ) 43]

A child? Really?

Playing as a child would be a joke. People would suicide to not be a child.

[zHDFXz 1]

ahh i see good idea tho i support

[hoik 415]

@ Deviant

"A child? Really?

Playing as a child would be a joke. People would suicide to not be a child."

Like I said, it would be temporary and 'opting' out is a legit choice. All Im hoping for is that at LEAST 1 in 10 people may like this - There are people out there who want a more in depth experience from this game, even if you dont think so. You're opinion is based on your playstyle (and therefore 100% valid) but please dont act like you are the voice of the community :(

Personally I would find being a child very interesting - just because a child is geared towards teamplay doesn't mean that they have to be "good" - all the freedom and options (playstyle wise) are all still there. You could be a murderus little bastard till you assend to adulthood, but this would be HARD and less interesting(IMO) than trying to manipulate (children are VERY manipulative :) ) other players to help you out. So I don't see why you think it would be a joke, is it the fact that you character would LOOK like a child? Or is it the buff/debuff issue? Please clarify.

[FlashHawk4 44]

Remember. Killing children is banned by the ESRB. If this game EVER went commercial, they'd have to gut this suggestion, and a whole lot more just because they've drawn the attention of the censors.

And I don't want to play as a child.

Just sayin'.

[hoik 415]

Yeah I knew the 'child' issue (agewise) would be a issue - but like I said, making them '18' would be a viable work around...very silly IMO but it is a game and they are played by younger children...though this game is definatly going to be 18+...

Anyway lets focus on the mechanic.

@FlashHawk4

"And I don't want to play as a child."

Please expand this, why?? Is it the fact you resemble a 'child' or the buff/debuffs? Or something else? - Im not saying your choice is invalid I'd just like to understand it...

[KnT47r 51]

"they are locked out of that server"

I dislike this immensely, it'd become too much of a hassle to keep track of which server you can play in and which server you cannot. Also what if I'm playing with a friend? I'm locked out of the only server he's locked out of and vice versa (very rare I know, but for argument's sake)

Overall (after reading it 2-3 times btw) I'm not keen, such a large mechanic that will cause more annoyances than interesting play IMO

[FlashHawk4 44]

Yeah I knew the 'child' issue (agewise) would be a issue - but like I said' date=' making them '18' would be a viable work around...very silly IMO but it is a game and they are played by younger children...though this game is definatly going to be 18+...

Anyway lets focus on the mechanic.

@FlashHawk4

"And I don't want to play as a child."

Please expand this, why?? Is it the fact you resemble a 'child' or the buff/debuffs? Or something else? - Im not saying your choice is invalid I'd just like to understand it...

[/quote']

I assume children in this game are ALSO going to be able to repair and fly helicopters, hit targets half a mile away with a .50 caliber sniper rifle, take down a zombie with nothing but a crowbar, apply medicine to themselves and others, carry car engines in their pockets, and all that?

[Superior 9]

Newsflash: This isn't RPG, bro.

[hoik 415]

Yeah I knew the 'child' issue (agewise) would be a issue - but like I said' date=' making them '18' would be a viable work around...very silly IMO but it is a game and they are played by younger children...though this game is definatly going to be 18+...

Anyway lets focus on the mechanic.

@FlashHawk4

"And I don't want to play as a child."

Please expand this, why?? Is it the fact you resemble a 'child' or the buff/debuffs? Or something else? - Im not saying your choice is invalid I'd just like to understand it...

[/quote']

I assume children in this game are ALSO going to be able to repair and fly helicopters, hit targets half a mile away with a .50 caliber sniper rifle, take down a zombie with nothing but a crowbar, apply medicine to themselves and others, carry car engines in their pockets, and all that?

Good point about the repairing, hadn't considered it. I don't think they should be able to repair cars, fire rifles with ease or be able to take down zombies with a crow bar - but this is my opinion. I mean who knows what skill sets different children might have?

Buff/debuffs could be added and subtracted to make a child as realistic or playable as you like - for me the key aspect is this idea is to create a 'realistic' and fun way to make players more involved with other aspects of the game other than KoS (for those that choose to) as well as bring the game to its logical end (if everyone is simply killing eachother).

---

"they are locked out of that server"

I dislike this immensely' date=' it'd become too much of a hassle to keep track of which server you can play in and which server you cannot. Also what if I'm playing with a friend? I'm locked out of the only server he's locked out of and vice versa (very rare I know, but for argument's sake)

Overall (after reading it 2-3 times btw) I'm not keen, such a large mechanic that will cause more annoyances than interesting play IMO

[/quote']

The 'lockout' idea was just to stop players zipping in and out of the server hauling all their loot to another server before it is reset - also it ties in with the 'last man on earth' aspect (which Im sure you get).

Maybe if you logout you loose the loot in your pack?? This would allow logging in and out of a 'end game' server but minus the loot hauling?

The thing is I feel there should be some sort of concequence to ending humanity :) .

---

Newsflash: This isn't RPG' date=' bro.

[/quote']

That is very superiour of you haha... sorry ;) . Newsflash...dont get all 'town-cryer' on my ass - that is your opinion not everyones. Many people enjoy this game on many different levels.

Those that don't like 'role playing' can opt-out. No problem - on the whole the FPS element (PvP) will be relativley unscathed.

[jesquik 75]

Sounds like the VIP in counterstrike :)

[wolfstriked 143]

Once again crazy weird posts get so many replies......whats up?

[hoik 415]

Crazy and wierd = out of your comfort zone maybe :-/ ? The reason I floated theis idea is BECAUSE it could take this game to another level beyond all the standard (and now stale) ideas/threads that are being thrown up again and again (I mean the ones that have already reached thier zenith/conclusion IMO, but keep getting re-posted by those new to the forum).

Anyway whats so wierd about excessive/thoughtless PvP = the death of the server/human kind? Its quite logical in my eyes...

I think a more open mind in topics like this ('wierd' ones) is whats needed. This is theoretical, most unlikely to get seen by a developer (like most the stuff here), so just use your imagination - this could be fun! If its the mechanics I propose that you dont like, come up with an alternative - if its the overall concept then tell me its WRONG, but then please explain why. :P .

Just as a side note: Just remember that being a 'child' is based on players average life expectancy - ATM the global average is 38mins, so if you were spawned as a child you would only have to be one for 2hrs 32mins before you garaduated to adulthood!

[bassist05 69]

I know what you mean. I posted a long thread about adding items and new loot areas, 0 replies.

Then this "idea" gets a ton of replies? lol wut.

[hoik 415]

I know what you mean. I posted a long thread about adding items and new loot areas' date=' 0 replies.

Then this "idea" gets a ton of replies? lol wut.

[/quote']

Like I said, your new, and your ideas have been well covered - :) .

[Claytonaj 12]

I really like the idea of players reaping what they sow, and this is one way to make killing others have appropriate repercussions (killing everyone you see would result in the death of mankind, if DayZ were actually a simulation). It might just be a step too far to introduce children. I'm not ready to support any suggestion that rigidly differentiates between players (be it a class/caste system or this). Everyone should spawn with the same starting conditions, what should differentiate is the player herself, and what she brings to the game. It's a cliché, but there should be a level playing field. I'd go with something more like your simplified version.

Aside from the children, however, I've toyed with the thought of locking players out of the game (not just one server, but all) for a period upon death. You might not agree with this Hoik, you haven't gone that far in this thread. I've seen it suggested before and the general reaction was not good, but I think it would be a positive thing. It would make death persistent enough to be meaningful, which it currently is not. Imagine your frustration at being shot by an unseen assailant, or killed by zeds, and being effectively banned from playing for several days. Some (many) people would view this emotional response as a reason not to introduce it into the game. I say this is exactly why it should be introduced, just for that feeling of frustration and dismay, and anger, et cetera. Maybe there could be a honeymoon period, meaning newly spawned players who are killed could respawn quickly. That'd be a reasonable concession. It would also only be fair to do this after many of the bugs have been worked out...

Edited July 28, 2012 by Claytonaj

[Nick8478 166]

I could make a long reply of why this is stupid, but instead, I'll just say this.

LOL. No.

[Claytonaj 12]

LOL. No.

Good to see you've come with an open mind though <_<

[Stubbies 67]

I would like this for a game mode, but adding children in the normal DayZ would be cool too. Without our ticket system though. This would just add a bit more variation, the games getting kinda stale seeing the same skins and shit everywhere... But hey its Alpha.

[hoik 415]

Claytonaj - Yeah, lockouts are very contentious - I mean people in this thread disliked being locked out of 1 server for 2-3 hours - and thats in the context of ENDING HUMANITY!!

Lockouts are a way to give lives value, but IMO it is a obvious, and very harsh punishment (Though, I wouldn't mind a trial run of it) :P . For me the two ways to give players value is A: Directly associate players with loot (as currently that is the only thing all players can agree has value), and B: Associate the players with a secondry value beyond loot (the best example of this IMO is skills/perks, how they are implemented is where the question). I'd love to hear other angles on this as its the most interesting/important topic IMO.

The first link in my sig relates to associating loot to players, I think you might like having a readd of it.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Hoik

[seddrik 44]

Welcome to The Sims of Dayz.

(Novel idea, but not very fun IMO.)

Edited November 22, 2012 by Seddrik

[tigerww2 24]

i dont think this would work out

[hoik 415]

Welcome to The Sims of Dayz.

(Novel idea, but not very fun IMO.)

IMO the more of a sim DayZ is the better. As for the "fun" aspect isn't this meant to be an anti game, not angry birds :P ? Anyway, IMO running into a child and deciding if the pros of having one about is worth the extra efforts that might be required would be interesting. And being chosen to be a child would be very interesting and fun!

i dont think this would work out

In which way? People would just suicide when they are a child? No one would team up with them (though remember children can turn off freindly fire, a big plus in my mind), Players would simply let the server go to hell because all they give a f*&^ about is killing shit?

Please clarify.

This is a older version of this concept. I admit the whole children aspec is a bit of a hard sell. I have made a much more "streamlined" version (here: http://dayzmod.com/f...yz/#entry992173 ). For me, the reason I think children have a place in dayZ is because the combenation of the two (DayZ + Children) is a very emotive subject. Putting the innocence and potential of childhood alongside the cold brutality of lawless/moraly-corupt society is interesting - should it be fun? IMO no.

Of course the problem is how we see the game as individuals - but I guess this can be directly related to other media such as film or books. You can make a horrific film about violence towards children (set in a zombie apocalyps :wacko: ) but you can not gaurentee that everyone in the audience is going to interpret the film your way. Some might even get off on it or think its funny - this is not the makers intention but you can not control how people think (or in the terms of a sand-box game like DayZ - how they act).

Could you make it so that players cant shoot children? Sure you could but then you loose all the drama - so instead you link the death of children (Any death, PvP or otherwise) to something detremental, like the ending of humaity/the server.

Anyway, end of my ramble - I think children have a thematical place in dayZ, but honestly doubt it will happen. Take a look at the revised version of this idea if you like - it has some broad ranging potential IMO.

Edited November 23, 2012 by Hoik