Do not make DayZ SA Moddable.

[FlimFlamm 509]

If you don't know what the main focal point of the game is, this conversation is done and you're just a troll.  And the focal point follows b, c, d & e

 

It looks to me like you're unable to answer a simple question. That's O.K, I'll answer it for you.

 

For some people the focal point of the game is on cooeprating with groups, for others it's travelling alone and killing doing PVP. Some people want to basebuild, some people want to construct and drive vehicles. Some people just want to meet a friend. Some people want to survive, some people want to kill. Some want to create, others want to destroy. Some people want to feel elated when they find beans; others want to make a generator and power a town.

 

These are all focal points of the game, and saying that the focal point of the game is "[b, the focal point, c, spawn rates, d, loadouts, e, and item rarity] says absolutely nothing about what the focal point of the game is supposed to be.

 

If I had never played DayZ, and this was the explanation of the focal point that you provided to me, I would be quite confused, wouldn't you think?

 

Words for the wise:

 

When people try to defend a position or claim which comes from their own biased and emotional perception of things, they tend to become dogmatically entrenched in their own ideas and are thusly unable to comprehend the ideas of their opponents. The emotional and cognitive dissionance that results from conceptualizing ideas contrary to one's own when in this state makes it almost impossible  to put forward a rational objection.

 

How can I convince you that mods are a good thing when if I ask you a simple question like "what is the focal point of the game" (a question relevant to the discussion of mods) you simply call me a troll and deliver a non-response, devoid of any rational argument whatsoever.

 

If you're done with the discussion "because i'm a troll" then that's fine with me. I'll be here if you change your mind.

Edited July 20, 2015 by FlimFlamm

[blacktwin0 98]

Saw the word "cantankerousness" and had to give away all my beans. This thread is silly. I can't believe that a person's sole reason to buy DayZ SA was because they thought it was never going to allow modding. Seems like an odd requirement when looking for a game. I can see the argument that mods will pull players from vanilla but that would be great. That would mean that DayZ SA has evolved into something better.  

 

Looking forward to seeing cows parachuting again.

[grimlok 77]

It looks to me like you're unable to answer a simple question. That's O.K, I'll answer it for you.

 

For some people the focal point of the game is on cooeprating with groups, for others it's travelling alone and killing doing PVP. Some people want to basebuild, some people want to construct and drive vehicles. Some people just want to meet a friend. Some people want to survive, some people want to kill. Some want to create, others want to destroy. Some people want to feel elated when they find beans; others want to make a generator and power a town.

 

These are all focal points of the game, and saying that the focal point of the game is "[b, the focal point, c, spawn rates, d, loadouts, e, and item rarity] says absolutely nothing about what the focal point of the game is supposed to be.

 

If I had never played DayZ, and this was the explanation of the focal point that you provided to me, I would be quite confused, wouldn't you think?

 

Words for the wise:

 

When people try to defend a position or claim which comes from their own biased and emotional perception of things, they tend to become dogmatically entrenched in their own ideas and are thusly unable to comprehend the ideas of their opponents. The emotional and cognitive dissionance that results from conceptualizing ideas contrary to one's own when in this state makes it almost impossible  to put forward a rational objection.

 

How can I convince you that mods are a good thing when if I ask you a simple question like "what is the focal point of the game" (a question relevant to the discussion of mods) you simply call me a troll and deliver a non-response, devoid of any rational argument whatsoever.

 

If you're done with the discussion "because i'm a troll" then that's fine with me. I'll be here if you change your mind.

Right off the store page.  DayZ is a gritty, authentic, open-world survival horror hybrid-MMO game, in which players follow a single goal: to survive in the harsh post-apocalyptic landscape as long as they can. Players can live through powerful events and emotions arising from the ever-evolving emergent gameplay.

 

Anything that detracts from the above statement is damaging to the game.  Mods such as different maps, clothing sets, weapons, food items, backpacks, animals, infected are good as long as they don't detract from the main focal point of the game. 

 

And just an fyi, I started back in the Vanilla mod of DayZ, so, yes, I've played DayZ.  Epoch, Overpoch, Underpoch, Chickenpoch, is not DayZ.

Edited July 20, 2015 by leader.one

[FlimFlamm 509]

Right off the store page.  DayZ is a gritty, authentic, open-world survival horror hybrid-MMO game, in which players follow a single goal: to survive in the harsh post-apocalyptic landscape as long as they can. Players can live through powerful events and emotions arising from the ever-evolving emergent gameplay.

 

Anything that detracts from the above statement is damaging to the game.  Mods such as different maps, clothing sets, weapons, food items, backpacks, animals, infected are good as long as they don't detract from the main focal point of the game. 

 

Well at least this is a start. You have provided a source (well done!), even if it is just a sales pitch that might not constitute meaningful information, at least we have something!

 

Now if only you took the time to explain how this quote indicates that mods will detract from the game, we would have an argument going! I'll work with what I'm given though, I'm not a greedy person...

 

So given the bolded red, it seems that "survival" is your asserted main focal point of the game...

 

Absolutely nothing inherent in "mods" will alter survival as the number one objective in DayZ. Survival is required for everything else. The idea of DayZ is not just to survive, but to survive while experiencing "powerful events and emotions" which come from "emergent game-play". It's not the surviving that is in fact the focal point, it's everything. There is no singular way to play DayZ, and yes, most of them involve survival, but if all we did was "survive" then there would be no actual events or emotions that arise from evolving gameplay.

 

We know DayZ is a survival game, we know it's a horror game. We know it's open world; we know it's post-apocalyptic. Where exactly is the logic that says gritty survival post-apocalyptic open world horror games will be detracted from if modding is permitted?

 

All you have done is copy pasted some sales literature which gives a brief and vague description of what DayZ is, bolded the word survival, and concluded by saying that this is the evidence/logic that shows/demonstrates how and why mods will detract from the game.

 

You've already begun to slide back down the slippery slope you have erected. First it's extra clothing and such that you're O.K with, then it's extra vehicles, and before you know it you'll be playing the most heavily modded variations of DayZ with absolutely no memory of this curious interaction in this podunk backwater thread of bias and juvenille greed.

Edited July 20, 2015 by FlimFlamm

[FlimFlamm 509]

And just an fyi, I started back in the Vanilla mod of DayZ, so, yes, I've played DayZ.  Epoch, Overpoch, Underpoch, Chickenpoch, is not DayZ.

 

But it was DayZ; it was modded DayZ.

 

You can state your definition for DayZ (along with sloppily pasted sales pitches), and all I need to do is state the contrary, and we reach an impasse. DayZ is not just one single thing; it's obvious.

Edited July 20, 2015 by FlimFlamm

[grimlok 77]

Well at least this is a start. You have provided a source (well done!), even if it is just a sales pitch that might not constitute meaningful information, at least we have something!

 

Now if only you took the time to explain how this quote indicates that mods will detract from the game, we would have an argument going! I'll work with what I'm given though, I'm not a greedy person...

 

So given the bolded red, it seems that "survival" is your asserted main focal point of the game...

 

Absolutely nothing inherent in "mods" will alter survival as the number one objective in DayZ. Survival is required for everything else. The idea of DayZ is not just to survive, but to survive while experiencing "powerful events and emotions" which come from "emergent game-play". It's not the surviving that is in fact the focal point, it's everything. There is no singular way to play DayZ, and yes, most of them involve survival, but if all we did was "survive" then there would be no actual events or emotions that arise from evolving gameplay.

 

We know DayZ is a survival game, we know it's a horror game. We know it's open world; we know it's post-apocalyptic. Where exactly is the logic that says gritty survival post-apocalyptic open world horror games will be detracted from if modding is permitted?

 

All you have done is copy pasted some sales literature which gives a brief and vague description of what DayZ is, bolded the word survival, and concluded by saying that this is the evidence/logic that shows/demonstrates how and why mods will detract from the game.

 

You've already begun to slide back down the slippery slope you have erected. First it's extra clothing and such that you're O.K with, then it's extra vehicles, and before you know it you'll be playing the most heavily modded variations of DayZ with absolutely no memory of this curious interaction in this podunk backwater thread of bias and greed.

Your reading comprehension has hit an all time low.  Copy and paste a sales pitch??  Lmao, tell that to Hicks.  

 

Go look at the goddamn mod if you want proof that mods detracted from the main focal point of the game.  

 

Again, you're arguing saying that I don't want mods.  No, learn to bloody read.  I'm fine with mods as long as they don't detract from the main "FOCAL POINT" of the game.  "SURVIVAL"

[FlimFlamm 509]

Your reading comprehension has hit an all time low.  Copy and paste a sales pitch??  Lmao, tell that to Hicks.  

 

Go look at the goddamn mod if you want proof that mods detracted from the main focal point of the game.  

 

Again, you're arguing saying that I don't want mods.  No, learn to bloody read.  I'm fine with mods as long as they don't detract from the main "FOCAL POINT" of the game.  "SURVIVAL"

 

Your inglorious entry into this thread made it unambiguous what your opinion on mods are (or were, naturally opinions evovle and change, and so this is just based upon what you have written)

 

"I bought the SA because I was under the assumption it would be DayZ, un-modded.  Now learning that they will allow modding to be a thing the game DayZ as we know it will disappear and be overrun with it's bastardized child called Epoch.  Epoch SA.... lovely.  Well the game was only $30 at release of the early access and I got my hours of enjoyment out of it at least."

 

Nowhere except in your most recent two posts have you made a distinction (a vague one at that) between some possible "mods" like clothing and maps, and other possible "mods", (epoch I assume). You entered this thread unequivocally opposed to mods and I'm not going to allow you to question my ability to read the english language. Forshame!

 

Hicks never intended for his sales pitch to be used as some sort of authoritative basis for navigating the issue of whether or not DayZ would be better with or without mods. It might just be a bit of sales rhetoric, not the ultimate truth about what DayZ is or should become.

 

You have begun to relinquish your position and "push back the goal posts" as it were. So far as I can tell you're no longer against mods even though any rational reader would likely conclude this.

 

You want mods for extra maps, extra vehicles, extra weapons, extra everything. You want mods galore don't you?! ADMIT IT!!!!!! :D

 

You just didn't like epoch for whatever reason, so really the total sum of all your communications in this entire thread amounts to one simple statement:

 

"I didn't like Epoch".

 

P.S, telling me to go look at mods like epoch is useless. You need to explain what about epoch is crap. I played thousands of hours of epoch. Loved it.

Edited July 20, 2015 by FlimFlamm

[grimlok 77]

You want mods for extra maps, extra vehicles, extra weapons, extra everything. You want mods galore don't you?! ADMIT IT!!!!!! :D

Extra?  Ya, your reading level is very childish.  Not once did I say I want "extra" anything.  Creating other items, why not.  Not adding extra.  That's just you being a child and putting words in my nouth

 

You need to explain what about epoch is crap.

What's so hard to figure out about Epoch when I have clearly stated, "Mods that retract from the main focal point of the game" aka survival.  Epoch is not a survival game.  It's a very sloppy version of minecraft.

[FlimFlamm 509]

Extra?  Ya, your reading level is very childish.  Not once did I say I want "extra" anything.  Creating other items, why not.  Not adding extra.  That's just you being a child and putting words in my nouth

 

"Creating other items" has the same meaning as "adding extra". I never said that you said that you wanted extra, I only said that you do in fact want extra, by the reasoning that "creating other items like maps and clothes" is in fact, "adding extra". :)

 

The formal way of describing what I've done (per your perception) is called the "straw man fallacy". If you do not hold the position that DayZ should not be moddable, then my criticism of that argument is irrelevant in our discussion. The straw man would be to attribute an argument to you, and then to attack it, when you do not even hold such a position.

 

If you no longer hold this position, or never did, and my entire interpretation of your ideas/opinions is based on miscommunication, then I will happily shake your hand, agree on the issue that DayZ should be moddable, and we can move on.

 

If however you still or do hold the opinion that modding access to DayZ would be a detriment to the game, and therefore should be disallowed, then we can continue where we last left off, which is stuck at the issue of exactly how mods ruin gameplay.

 

What's so hard to figure out about Epoch when I have clearly stated, "Mods that retract from the main focal point of the game" aka survival.  Epoch is not a survival game.  It's a very sloppy version of minecraft.

 

A sloppy version of minecraft?

 

This is where I typically use words like flabbergasted or gobsmacked, but I'll spare you all that ;). Epoch was very much a survival game. You had to survive the zombies, which at least were stronger than vanilla zeds, at the time, and players themselves posed much more of a risk. You had disease and hunger requirements, along with environmental effects. It certainly was not a sloppy minecraft. It was vanilla DayZ with more vehicles, weapons, clothes, and outlandish base-building options. You can take an aesthetic issue with giant cement walls and skybases, but that is entirely your own opinion, and it is an irrelevant one because nobody wants to see sky bases in DayZ; mods which enable skybase mode won't be too popular i reckon.

 

You keep repeating the same basic mantras and platitudes, and I keep having to remind you that you need to go farther and actually type out an argument. Premises and conclusions, not just statements and appeals to your own emotional feelings about what DayZ was, is and should become.

 

You say epoch detracted from the game (without explanation/demonstration/evidence/reasoning), but it was very popular and constitutes a significant era in DayZ history. DayZ has transcended your own petty notions about what it ought to be, whether you like it or not; they liked it; I liked it. It will continue to transcend all of our notions about what DayZ is and should be because that's the nature of a game with as much emergence as DayZ.

 

I have a soft spot for the argument which says keep DayZ difficult, keep it player skill and experience based instead of level based or soft skill based, keep it de-militarized... etc... You could do a whole lot of good on the forum if you separated your ideas about what DayZ should be from your fears about what direction some of the mods might take. The devs in the end are not going to be able to cater to you specifically, but if you convince enough people on your actual ideas about the game, and they get support, then you might have a shot at influencing the devs to create a game that more closely resembles your dream vision about what it ought to be.

 

Short of achieving total success and getting the exact game that you want, your only chance afterward to "get your 30$ worth" out of DayZ will be to rely on modders. Many modders are going to mod in exactly the sorts of thigns you desire; more maps, more clothes, deadlier zeds, deadly animals, all the stuff you have wet dreams about. And yet you persist in this thread with objections to mods, seemingly in support of the OP. I really think you should take some time to reconsider your strategy in sharing your ideas in threads like this. Your goal should be to share your opinions as clearly and convincingly as possible, and if you value the internal consistency of your opinions and your ideas, you need to be able to reproach them in order to improve them.

 

Are you willing to state that you think DayZ should be moddable? If so we can agree. If not, what is your point in this thread beyond "I don't like epoch".

Edited July 20, 2015 by FlimFlamm

[grimlok 77]

From my original post in this thread

I bought the SA because I was under the assumption it would be DayZ, un-modded.  Now learning that they will allow modding to be a thing the game DayZ as we know it will disappear and be overrun with it's bastardized child called Epoch.  Epoch SA.... lovely.  Well the game was only $30 at release of the early access and I got my hours of enjoyment out of it at least.

Acknowledging that, yes, mods are coming.  We'll move on to your post yet again.

 

"Creating other items" has the same meaning as "adding extra". I never said that you said that you wanted extra, I only said that you do in fact want extra, by the reasoning that "creating other items like maps and clothes" is in fact, "adding extra". :)

 

The formal way of describing what I've done (per your perception) is called the "straw man fallacy". If you do not hold the position that DayZ should not be moddable, then my criticism of that argument is irrelevant in our discussion. The straw man would be to attribute an argument to you, and then to attack it, when you do not even hold such a position.

 

If you no longer hold this position, or never did, and my entire interpretation of your ideas/opinions is based on miscommunication, then I will happily shake your hand, agree on the issue that DayZ should be moddable, and we can move on.

 

If however you still or do hold the opinion that modding access to DayZ would be a detriment to the game, and therefore should be disallowed, then we can continue where we last left off, which is stuck at the issue of exactly how mods ruin gameplay.

 

 

A sloppy version of minecraft?

 

This is where I typically use words like flabbergasted or gobsmacked, but I'll spare you all that ;). Epoch was very much a survival game. You had to survive the zombies, which at least were stronger than vanilla zeds, at the time, and players themselves posed much more of a risk. You had disease and hunger requirements, along with environmental effects. It certainly was not a sloppy minecraft. It was vanilla DayZ with more vehicles, weapons, clothes, and outlandish base-building options. You can take an aesthetic issue with giant cement walls and skybases, but that is entirely your own opinion, and it is an irrelevant one because nobody wants to see sky bases in DayZ; mods which enable skybase mode won't be too popular i reckon.

 

You keep repeating the same basic mantras and platitudes, and I keep having to remind you that you need to go farther and actually type out an argument. Premises and conclusions, not just statements and appeals to your own emotional feelings about what DayZ was, is and should become.

 

You say epoch detracted from the game (without explanation/demonstration/evidence/reasoning), but it was very popular and constitutes a significant era in DayZ history. DayZ has transcended your own petty notions about what it ought to be, whether you like it or not; they liked it; I liked it. It will continue to transcend all of our notions about what DayZ is and should be because that's the nature of a game with as much emergence as DayZ.

 

I have a soft spot for the argument which says keep DayZ difficult, keep it player skill and experience based instead of level based or soft skill based, keep it de-militarized... etc... You could do a whole lot of good on the forum if you separated your ideas about what DayZ should be from your fears about what direction some of the mods might take. The devs in the end are not going to be able to cater to you specifically, but if you convince enough people on your actual ideas about the game, and they get support, then you might have a shot at influencing the devs to create a game that more closely resembles your dream vision about what it ought to be.

 

Short of achieving total success and getting the exact game that you want, your only chance afterward to "get your 30$ worth" out of DayZ will be to rely on modders. Many modders are going to mod in exactly the sorts of thigns you desire; more maps, more clothes, deadlier zeds, deadly animals, all the stuff you have wet dreams about. And yet you persist in this thread with objections to mods, seemingly in support of the OP. I really think you should take some time to reconsider your strategy in sharing your ideas in threads like this. Your goal should be to share your opinions as clearly and convincingly as possible, and if you value the internal consistency of your opinions and your ideas you need to be able to reproach them in order to improve them.

 

Are you willing to state that you think DayZ should be moddable? If so we can agree. If not, what is your point in this thread beyond "I don't like epoch".

Again you added words to my post by saying, "Extra everything" where not once did I say, state or even hint at adding "extra" to the game.

 

Now on to Epoch.  Epoch is not a survival game.  It is a dumbed down sloppy "PvP, build a sky tower, self blood-bag, 1000 cars, starting gear, every weapon known to man crap fest with zombies sprinkled in just like every other mod beyond DayZ.  DayZ Origins was decent but died out because people couldn't handle it.

 

Now you'll most likely blabber on saying that if DayZ was so good why is Epoch popular?  It's popular because it's easy, non survival, gives everything handed to you without a smidgen of effort.  People like this kind of game.  

 

As for mods, they can be great, when they don't ruin the playing experience.  We've already got four different server types to spread out the already thin playerbase now tack on mods and that spreads it even thinner into whatever different variations that will be created.  

Edited July 20, 2015 by leader.one

[FlimFlamm 509]

Again you added words to my post by saying, "Extra everything" where not once did I say, state or even hint at adding "extra" to the game.

Yes you did.

 

" Mods such as different maps, clothing sets, weapons, food items, backpacks, animals, infected are good". Creating new content has the same meaning as adding extra content. If you want to debate semantics I can deal with that, but you should probably acknowledge it is not an issue and instead try to comprehend my point; you don't object to mods in and of themselves, you only object to mods you personally dislike. What I'm trying to tell you is that saying no to mods is a bad idea because you yourself are going to benefit from them in ways you have already admitted

 

 

Now on to Epoch.  Epoch is not a survival game.  It is a dumbed down sloppy "PvP, build a sky tower, self blood-bag, 1000 cars, starting gear, every weapon known to man crap fest with zombies sprinkled in just like every other mod beyond DayZ.  DayZ Origins was decent but died out because people couldn't handle it.

 

If what you say is true then people will simply quit DayZ rather than play a game they cannot handle. 1000 car servers were a problem in the original vanilla and the only thing that solved thjat problem was constructable vehicles and/or vehicle vendors. It turns out people quit a game where after many months of lone play they still have almost zero chance of experiencing content like aircraft, so servers jacked their car and heli spawn rates and attracted a shit ton of players. This generally occured after the initial phase of DayZ, which had novelty, which we all grew bored of. Mods which added more and more weapons attracted players because they got bored of the limited available content. This is why saying thins like "extra (meaning additional variety of) maps and clothing is good" feels right.

 

On the issue of sky bases, it is a completely unfair assumption to make that modders will make the same mistake of allowing floating cement. That said, the devs are implementing base building on their own, so modders probably won't even need to add much, certainly not sky bases. What you're really saying here is that you know what's best for the DayZ community as a whole, and that like it or not, they should play the game you envision and not the one they envision. I still don;t know what your point in this thread is beyond you not liking epoch, but I'm not sure because you still have not answered the question of what your actual position is.

 

Are you for or against modding?

 

 

Now you'll most likely blabber on saying that if DayZ was so good why is Epoch popular?  It's popular because it's easy, non survival, gives everything handed to you without a smidgen of effort.  People like this kind of game.

 

Actually Epoch brought a whole new level of challenges to the game. On servers that had admins to prevent duping and hacking communities would emerge and do war with one another.

 

You needed to actually be in a clan of people for this to be effective, so perhaps you never got that chance, but building bases as protected as possible required a serious amount of effort and sky towers were always big targets unless they had a community alliance. You toss aside epoch like it was some shitty easy to play game, but it actually required a lot of time and effort and cooepration to succed in, which is something that DayZ vanilla always was, and still is, lacking.

 

 

 

As for mods, they can be great, when they don't ruin the playing experience.  We've already got four different server types to spread out the already thin playerbase now tack on mods and that spreads it even thinner into whatever different variations that will be created.

This horse has already been buried 8 feet in the ground...

 

There will always be at least one vanilla server where you can go, so I guess all you need to worry about is getting a bad reputation on that one remaining vanilla server... You will have to accept the community of this server for what it is, like it or lump it; you will have no other choice. You might want them to change their ingame habits but you aren't likely going to convince many of them to change their behavior.

 

After not too long of being restricted to this one server, unless it is the perfect one for you, you are going to quit DayZ.

 

But what if there was a plethora of mods available where people like yourself could all go to play the way you like to play?

 

Are you going to lament that a bunch of people who would otherwise have quit the game are not going to be experiencing the exact same version of the game along side of you, so as to benefit them or yourself through entertainment?

 

Probably not, you're going to find the mod that suits you, or vanilla, and there are going to be a bunch of people playing along side of you, regardless of how "thin" the playerbase is. It will get even thinner if you try and dictate what is good and what is bad like some great arbiter of value. Mods, if anything, will increase the playerbase by large margins, IMHO, because of all the extra content that purchasing the game will give you access to.

 

So I ask you again, are you for or against modding in DayZ SA?

Edited July 20, 2015 by FlimFlamm

[Chaingunfighter 917]

As for mods, they can be great, when they don't ruin the playing experience.  We've already got four different server types to spread out the already thin playerbase now tack on mods and that spreads it even thinner into whatever different variations that will be created.  

You act like the "correct" playing experience is objective. To you it may "ruin the experience" to have mod compilations like Epoch that basically changed the slow-paced and realistic tide of the game to a more fast-paced and less realistic action style, but to other players it does not ruin it any way and in many cases they prefer it.

 

Any modding at all is going to "fracture" the playerbase to different sects that have what they prefer, so don't take the position that some mods are acceptable if you're going to argue that you don't want the community to be fractured.

 

Is it better to arbitrarily limit someone's creative ability based on a single person's whims of what they feel "makes or breaks" their experience, or should we allow the content creators to build and create as they see fit and allow the player base to decide what they like? To me, the answer is obvious, but I'm not sure how you feel.

[Syphonz 64]

Im going to make a brief step in here, just going to say something.

 

 

 

The reason Hicks ditched the mod and moved to the standalone is because it could be created from the ground up with a different engine, so that they could vastly cut down on hackers and system performance. 

 

 

Mods WILL be in the final release of the game. It has been confirmed by the devs, its going to happen. For all we know, some mods will be as minor as adding a SINGLE gun to the game. Yes, some will be more outlandish, but, oh well. If you think thats going to ruin the game, you need your head examined. 

[St. Jimmy 1631]

With a good server browser and filter system everyone could've found the mode they liked easily. Arma 2/3/DayZ server browser doesn't have ebough good filter system so we could filter out all the stupid modes that you don't like. You can see the problem clearly in Arma 3 when you can't filter out stuff like Battleroyale, Wasteland, KOTH, Epoch, Life etc. that I'll never play and the same can happen in DayZ. No wonder people are playing those modes because that's all they can find from the browser.

[doctorbadsign 645]

It's simple, all they need is a "hide modded servers" button in the browser.

As for those servers being empty, well that would just say a lot about the game.