Do DayZ and Teamwork mix?

[Damnyourdeadman 1045]

Hey everyone,this one's an ancient and highly controversial topic.

But maybe now's a good chance,to discuss and dwell further upon it.

As you can see below,i have compiled a text,refrencing the community's most stereotype opinions about the DayZ's teamwork aspect.

Your own comments would be highly appreciated! :)

 

In a Reality Scenario

DayZ is a game that has strong foundations in realism and authenticity.

However,in a real Apocalypse situation the majority of people would most likely form groups to increase their chances of survival.

One of the main reasons being,that people with different abilities are essential.

Doctors,engineers or even farmers would prove valuable assets in an outbreak scenario.

Furthermore,besides "security in numbers",alot of working hands,can achieve the completion of a task much faster.

 

 

DayZ PVErs

The people playing DayZ,mostly for the game's survival aspect.

They ocassionaly engage in PVP,but that's mostly as an act of self defence.

They are the survivors and the majority of DayZ's player population.

 

There are mixed feelings concerning player cooperation,many advocate in favor of teamwork,as a means of an end-game goal.

However most players in DayZ are against a skill and profession division.

People hate grinding and are against the idea of losing everything in death.

Then,there's those that deem it unauthentic for a system placing restrictions on them.

 

 

The Lone Wolf gamestyle

I'm sure this is one of the most popular and widespread playstyles in DayZ.

A lonewolf gamestyle,describes a player that depends on himself against all odds for survival.

 

Lonewolves are often against anything that would give an unfair advantage to their playstyle.

They often dispute about future possible ingame restrictictions,placed by the lack of player cooperation.

Some advocate that almost every action should be do-able,without requiring the assistance of a third party member.

 

 

DayZ PVPers

A large number of people,play DayZ soley for the PVP aspect.

This large fraction of the community,enjoys the sheer adredaline feeling of a firefight,rather than the game's survival aspecet.

 

Pvpers are often against something that would potentially decrease the game's KOS aspect.

They often support the idea,that the ideal game's setting must remain a brutal bloodfest where everyone can die for anything.

Some advocate that player cooperation should be mainly about,security in numbers,anything else is trivial.

Most are against player cooperation actions and restrictions,as this would possibly degrade their PVP experience. 

 

 

You?

What is your personal opinion,towards player cooperation and teamwork?

 

• Should it be encourged,as an optional but rewarding playstyle without being forced upon players?
• Would you rather have DayZ as a survival game heavily driven by teamwork mechanics?
• Should the player be able to perform almost everything on his own,without the need of player cooperation?

 

 

 

Your feedback would be highly appreciated! :D

 

 

 

 

[SapperGR 8]

Cooperation is already encouraged, a team working together is much more safe and can accomplish every task much faster than a single person.

 

In the future vehicles won't spawn in good condition and fueled to the brim, for a single person to get them up and running would require a lot of time to get the required pieces together, with no guarantee that the vehicle will still be there by the time he has all the needed parts.

 

A team can also get you healed much faster (saline and blood transfusion) and make sure you won't bleed out while unconscious, we also have the zeds becomming a real threat.

 

Dividing tasks between group members will be more rewarding too, base builders, farmers, hunters, raiders, you name it and it can be done. Lone wolfing may be a very hard playstyle to follow after release.

[VahidkinG 192]

i'm also agreed with SapperGR, there is a really good and rewarding mechanic for teamwork playstyle  and there will be more rewarding stuff in future. 

i just want to add that, i think it's better to have a group up system that actually works like other game rather than you find your buddy on your own (it worth nothing to mention that i have zero problem with this, i'm offering it because it's better to have this mechanic for ecourage new players (more than likely non-hardcore players) to buy the game)

 

i think that is better to work on lonewolf playstyle, and give them some advantage as well so you (which is also already good because people almost can't spot you that well, your not waiting for friends in a bad situation or etc.) but i think it's not enough. i don't know how they can improve this playstyle but if there is a way to improve it, i diffidently want it to happen because i play mostly in private servers and my friends playing in public :D

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

Firstly, I do not agree that lone wolf is one of the most popular play styles as I believe A LOT of players burn out playing alone pretty fast.

 

Things are changing and we are seeing a bit less of the PVPer's but they are probably some kind of majority (which you basically said).

 

Personally, for the record, anybody who practices KoS is NOT a survivor but are a murderer.

 

I'm looking forward to a day when Bandits are thieves who rob people with guns, Survivors are neutral players, and Murderers are just that, Murderers.

 

^^The language we use is very important to the discussions about DayZ and the terms coined by the PvP/KoS community do not line up with the DayZ 1.0 Vanilla game we will have 2 years from now.

 

Back closer to OP....

 

I've played almost exclusively lone wolf since July '12 in the mod and now that I've played with a friend consistently for a few weeks I can say that surviving with a friend is easier and certainly enhances your ability to complete most DayZ long term goals (camp building and soon, vehicle building).

 

This is by design, and will become more and more apparent as the game develops.

 

The new medical systems and vehicle systems alone will greatly benefit group play for instance.

[scriptfactory 620]

Vanilla DayZ offers plenty of opportunities for small team-based cooperation. It will probably never offer the experience of surviving in a post-apocalyptic world. People always talk about DayZ being like "The Road" but someone needs to make a fucking "Mad Max" or "Book of Eli" mod. Post-apocalyptic civilization without NPCs.

[applejaxc 2500]

Cooperation isn't so much as "encouraged" as playing by yourself is de facto automatic failure in 99% of dealing with other players because every Dick, Jane, and Mary is using their damn TS3 to not only unrealistically communicate across the map, but to be able to respawn (with friends) and run back to their body and punish you for self defense.

[8bit_Survivor 93]

I think teamwork is encouraged but not forced upon you which I believe is the intention. This is going to be one of the most difficult design hurdles when it comes to game mechanics for BI devs. Ofcourse you have to adjust your tactics if your solo but some may find it more enjoyable.

My problem with grouping up is that they always want to use TS. I do not do this with DayZ, nor will I. It ruins so many aspects of the game including immersion, realism, and makes it feel too safe.

Just as the Hicks recently stated about gunshots...you should be worried about communicating to allies because someone might hear you. Using TS takes away that element.

Edited May 4, 2015 by 8bit_Survivor

[Grimey Rick 3417]

Cooperation is already encouraged, a team working together is much more safe and can accomplish every task much faster than a single person.

The only thing multiple people can accomplish faster in DayZ is, in general, loot stuff faster. When it comes to surviving, you're better off on your own.

I've lost count of how many 3-5 man squads I've destroyed by myself.

[ASTINvlogs 44]

Should it be encourged,as an optional but rewarding playstyle without being forced upon players? Yes. Obvious rewards for teamwork with equally obvious penalties. Nothing is impossible alone but life is easier with a battle buddy.

Would you rather have DayZ as a survival game heavily driven by teamwork mechanics? Not " driven " by tw mechanics but the benifits be obvious and realistic.

Should the player be able to perform almost everything on his own,without the need of player cooperation? Yes

I'm listed as a " pvper " my entire goal in a character is to get geared and hunt other players. Not Bambi. There's no threat in a Bambi.

Armed preferably in a group and somewhat intelligent based on their actions are the ones we engage. Usually before an ambush we gear specifically for it. Believe it or not this mandatory persistence on has actually made pvp easier. We're always gear hunting so it just gets dropped off at base. If one of us goes down we server hop back to the moderately safe zone ( my server ) then pick up, regear, back in the fight.

Slowed me down only slightly for the first few days.

[Damnyourdeadman 1045]

The only thing multiple people can accomplish faster in DayZ is, in general, loot stuff faster. When it comes to surviving, you're better off on your own.

I've lost count of how many 3-5 man squads I've destroyed by myself.

 

Yep,Grimey pretty much sumed up my train of thoughts.

 

Atm,the only advantage for teamwork would be faster looting locations and added security in numbers.

However the negatives pretty much outweigh the positives,as you would have to share your loot with a third member.

And if that member is neither an acquaintance or a friend,it's not really worth teaming up in the first place.

 

 

.This is by design, and will become more and more apparent as the game develops.

 

The new medical systems and vehicle systems alone will greatly benefit group play for instance.

 

Would that really work out though?

Honestly atm people rarely use the ingame blood transfusion and resuscitation mechanics.

I feel like they are mostly for show,just like walkie-talkies.

That's due to the fact that design plays an important role,for players making use of the game's "cooperation mechanics".

 

If for example,radios had a global range and was the starting gear for everyone,i'm sure players would use them.

That's because the game would support their functionality (design wise).

 

If they go ahead and implement the new medical and vehicle repair systems the same way as the aforementioned features,i wouldn't expect much improvement.

[Parazight 1594]

• Should it be encourged,as an optional but rewarding playstyle without being forced upon players?
• Would you rather have DayZ as a survival game heavily driven by teamwork mechanics?
• Should the player be able to perform almost everything on his own,without the need of player cooperation?

I don't really see any teamwork mechanics.  A gamer can survive on his own.  It doesn't take multiple people to 'not die'.

 

The game seems to ask; "Do you want social interaction or not?" and not "Are you using teamwork?"

[Dagwood 680]

The main thing getting in the way of teamwork, or strangers teaming up, is a lack of trust. I won't team up with you because I don't want you to shoot me in the back. Roughly.

People have suggested penalties for KOSing, and I don't agree with that. However, I do like the idea of being "penalized" for shooting someone that you agreed to play nice with.

Here's a rough idea:

Let's say a "make truce" mechanic was introduced. When you bumped into a stranger, and you didn't blow each other away immediately, you had an option to offer a truce similar to the way we can check pulse in game currently. If the truce is accepted, you and that player are buddies for a short duration (15 minutes to an hour? Idk). This buddy status changes nothing. No gamey icons, no map indicators, none of that shit. The only difference would be that if one of you hurts the other player UNPROVOKED, and a new truce isn't immediately struck (to avoid friendly fire penalties), the offender would be punished.

My thought is that this would maybe make it a little easier for us to trust strangers, and be more inclined to try and give someone the benefit of the doubt. The punishment needs to be appropriate though. No immersion breaking stat changes or permanent clothing changes (looking at you mod-humanity system).

I think something subtle like that canibal laugh would be suitable. Something that would give a future, potential backatab victim a warning.

Teaming up on the fly is one of the coolest aspects of dayz. I would like to see something subtle done to promote, or even just support this kind of gameplay.

[Dagwood 680]

The main thing getting in the way of teamwork, or strangers teaming up, is a lack of trust. I won't team up with you because I don't want you to shoot me in the back. Roughly.

People have suggested penalties for KOSing, and I don't agree with that. However, I do like the idea of being "penalized" for shooting someone that you agreed to play nice with.

Here's a rough idea:

Let's say a "make truce" mechanic was introduced. When you bumped into a stranger, and you didn't blow each other away immediately, you had an option to offer a truce similar to the way we can check pulse in game currently. If the truce is accepted, you and that player are buddies for a short duration (15 minutes to an hour? Idk). This buddy status changes nothing. No gamey icons, no map indicators, none of that shit. The only difference would be that if one of you hurts the other player UNPROVOKED, and a new truce isn't immediately struck (to avoid friendly fire penalties), the offender would be punished.

My thought is that this would maybe make it a little easier for us to trust strangers, and be more inclined to try and give someone the benefit of the doubt. The punishment needs to be appropriate though. No immersion breaking stat changes or permanent clothing changes (looking at you mod-humanity system).

I think something subtle like that canibal laugh would be suitable. Something that would give a future, potential backatab victim a warning.

Teaming up on the fly is one of the coolest aspects of dayz. I would like to see something subtle done to promote, or even just support this kind of gameplay.

[Whyherro123 2283]

In real life, survival is exponentially easier when undertaken as a group, which is why humanity has had tribes and such as long as, and even before, we were "modern humans". "Lone Wolf" survival is really, really difficult to accomplish in real life. Everything is more difficult, it takes longer to accomplish, and you have no "safety-net", as it were.

 

This is due to the "division of labor", where in a larger group, the "resources required" for survival (food, water, warmth) only grows linearly, while the amount of work that can be done in larger groups grows exponentially. Yes, group size can get "too big" for the environment (when your group essentially picks an area clean of supplies), but this is when you break off into smaller, more focused groups (smaller, more in-shape group goes ahead to scout out terrain, clear trails, and set up camp, while the larger group travels with the weaker and wounded members)

 

So, a group of 5 can build a shelter, gather wood and water, and build a fire all at the same time, while a single person has to do that all by themselves, taking probably 5-10x as long to do so, with increased levels of effort.

 

The only thing "lone wolf" survival has going for it is stealth.

[Dagwood 680]

Lone wolves also need less to survive. If your one of those players that refuses to do anything but scavenge for survival, another mouth to feed can be a problem.

[kradarak 23]

I like to do a couple different variations.  I like co-op.  A couple of guys and I have a camp on a server.  We have 3 vehicles and like 4 tents.  We plan on breaking it up to different camps on the server eventually.  I like to play wolf pvp too.  It sucks to be on a server that is strictly for co-op and I wave to someone, and say hi and all they can do is attack like we are doing pvp.  I really don't know how to respond to it, so even before I'm dead, I just get up and get a soda or something, waiting to respawn.  The game just doesn't have a feature to enforce co-op...so I don't hold it against the loser.  It's not what I'm there for and I'm just not doing to participate.

 

Then again, I do like pvp.  It's sometimes easier to relax and shoot first and know that person isn't a threat anymore.  I don't do regular pvp where you shoot at me and I shoot at you.  I like to try to be quiet, sneak around and see you first...taking my time, then pow, you're dead and you have no idea who did it.  I bet that kinda takes the fun outta it for them.  I get popped every now and then.  Just found out about that spinal thing.  Zombie hits me once and I died after about 3 weeks with a guy...sucked...so now I have to make sure I kill off my guy every few weeks just to be sure.

 

The only way I don't like is when I'm playing lone wolf and I take out one member of a party of like 3 guys.  That sucks.  2 guys, no problem...I only have 1 surprise guy I didn't know about...and he's going to be fearful when he sees I took out his buddy and make the wrong decision.  3, that's 2 extra dudes stepping up, and they can overwhelm you quick.

[mike49 5]

I think teamwork is something that should be encouraged, but having other people should never be a prerequisite when wanting to complete a task. 

 

Having more people in your group I would always see as an advantage (up to a certain point it could be argued) over the lone wolf playstyle.

With a larger group you're undoubtedly safer and are able to make better use of loot, this is because:

• strength in numbers - a single person might think twice about attacking a group of 4 
• looting is quicker - therefore less time spent in towns and other dangerous areas
• you can loot "luxury" items - items that could be seen as situation or not necessary for immediate survival might be ignored by a lone wolf trying to make the most of out backpack space
• easier to spot things - having extra pairs of eyes is in my opinion the single reason why working in a group is so great. Spotting other players, heli crash sites, watching your back, providing overwatch - these are all things which are invaluable.
• less wasted loot 

 

There's obvious downsides to working in a group, such as the need to share food, water and medical supplies, you're also much easier to spot when moving as a team, as generally groups tend not to be as careful when looting small towns as lone survivors. 

[q.S Sachiel 470]

base game aside, the meta (multiplayer aspect)game already rewards teamwork or at least semi-co-operation.

That said, I don't feel dayz encourages co-operation to the extent that I'd like, or the average playerbase is overly suspicious/afraid and dangerous, or just dangerous.  I've commented generally on this before, but I'd like to see more reward for opt-in while having zero penalty for opt-out for teamwork/co-operation, as i do enjoy the lonewolf life.

[Damnyourdeadman 1045]

I think there should be some restrictions when playing alone.

We all like the "lone wolf" play style and hate a system enforcing it's rules on us,but there should be more to gameplay.

 

If we leave it as it is,players will be able to build whole villages alone.

Would you really like the game that way?

Everyone is quick to play the realism card but when things go against a certain playstyle,you chicken out.

 

Most of you want a survival game heavily based on realism,you should accept the fact that a base cannot be constructed by a single person.

You also claim to hate grinding,so should construction be like : drag - drop and poof - insta made base,"enjoy" ?

 

Not gonna lie,i'm kinda disappointed,because it feels like everyone subtly avoids discussion about the stuff that really matter...

Edited May 7, 2015 by Damnyourdeadman

[BCBasher 2465]

Yes, teamwork and Dayz do mix.

 

I learned the mechanics and map playing by myself and it was fun, slow but fun, it also led to some disappointing deaths and I believe the sense of despair one would feel being truly alone.

 

I started playing with my 15 year old son recently and it's been a great gaming experience, I was stiving to be a neutral player by myself and that was damn near impossible.

 

We've had two interactions as a two man team so far and out of the four people total involved three of them went on with their day both of us, both times. First guy at Balota ATC got chased in by a zombie while I tried to get a shot on the zombie and failed, he meleed it and bandaged inside. We kept our guns up but told him we're not going to shoot if he doesn't give us a reason, we have nothing to offer though. His mic or whatever was quiet and staticy and he was impossible to understand but I left him on the second floor with junior to go down and close the front door. Of course he punched out junior and tried to turn my son's blaze on me, bad move on his part he got headshotted and delivered us 20 more blaze rounds in the process. 

 

Second guy logged in in a house just as junior was going to enter last night, we calmed and reassured him from the bottom of the stairs. Determined he was going east, we were going west, wished each other luck and life went on. That one was the one that stuck out though the tone of his voice changed when I said "there's two of us, I'm not putting my gun away because I'm double carrying". 

 

Although I'm sitting in the same room at home as my teammate with a good view of his 46" screen as well as mine I don't agree with or like the "clans" on TS in packs of 3 or more roaming and killing everyone just because they can. Like I told junior last night it takes a bigger man not to kill someone given the chance.

[Evil Minion 943]

The Lone Wolf gamestyle

I'm sure this is one of the most popular and widespread playstyles in DayZ.

The reason? Because it's massively overpowered at the moment. It's pretty easy to survive on your own and less risky than joining forces with strangers who might betray you. In comparison the benefits of cooperation are few:

• You are more likely to survive disease or greater injuries (which doesn't happen very often).
• You got more power in PvP encounters (unless your "friends" are the ones betraying you).
• You can be more efficient with your inventory by sharing tools (though lone wolves have no problem carrying everything they need).
• You can speed up some tasks if time is an issue (in most cases it is not).
• You have some company while traveling.

Is it worth the risk of trusting a complete stranger? Many people seem to think it isn't. I think being a lone wolf should be way more difficult to the point where it might be a luck based mission to only rely on yourself.

[Surviv0r1969 151]

rather have DayZ as a survival game heavily driven by teamwork mechanics. least amount of kos, we have COD and arma for that type of game. we want something different. yes sometimes a fight is inevitable but kos if boring and ruins the theme of the game, Surviving as a human race, overcoming the hazard of an apocalyptic world together

[Bush_Wookieing_101 15]

 

I really only play as a lone wolf and that's how I've always been since the mod. Honestly it's much safer if you're not dependiing on another player for survival. If I find a gun, all the ammo I find is mine. Everything I kill is mine. If I kill a person and they have highly desirable items, I don't need to argue with smeone else over who should get them. I find my own food, kill my own wildlife, loot the way I want to, and generally do what I want to do and what I feel will help me survive.

 

For everyone saying that the lone wolf play style is oerpowered, remember that in a real zombie apocalypse, while safety may be in numbers, you are infinite times more stealthy on your own. Also, you don't run into trust issues and weaker members of a group if you're alone. You can sneak past zombies much easier, move much faster, and generally survive longer on your own, as long as you are smart in the way you move, kill, and loot. Also you don't need to share food, drink, clothes, and ammunition with anyone else. Everything you find is yours to use for your own benefit.

 

The only reason you should be in a group is if you can trust them with something as monumental as your life. If you can't, then a group isn't the best idea. And remember that if the group is hard-pressed for food, you are at risk of getting eaten and canabalized.

 

[Whyherro123 2283]

 

 

I really only play as a lone wolf and that's how I've always been since the mod. Honestly it's much safer if you're not dependiing on another player for survival. If I find a gun, all the ammo I find is mine. Everything I kill is mine. If I kill a person and they have highly desirable items, I don't need to argue with smeone else over who should get them. I find my own food, kill my own wildlife, loot the way I want to, and generally do what I want to do and what I feel will help me survive.

 

For everyone saying that the lone wolf play style is oerpowered, remember that in a real zombie apocalypse, while safety may be in numbers, you are infinite times more stealthy on your own. Also, you don't run into trust issues and weaker members of a group if you're alone. You can sneak past zombies much easier, move much faster, and generally survive longer on your own, as long as you are smart in the way you move, kill, and loot. Also you don't need to share food, drink, clothes, and ammunition with anyone else. Everything you find is yours to use for your own benefit.

 

The only reason you should be in a group is if you can trust them with something as monumental as your life. If you can't, then a group isn't the best idea. And remember that if the group is hard-pressed for food, you are at risk of getting eaten and canabalized.

 

See, this right here tells me that you have probably no actual survival experience.

 

In a "real -insert disaster here- apocalypse", all of the "lone wolves" will  be the first to die out. 

 

In real-world survival, "lone-wolf" style is excruciatingly difficult in comparison to group-survival. They won't have any backup, nor help. Example: if they break a limb, they are helpless, and probably dead. Vs in a group, a broken limb, while still a "big deal" is much more manageable. Sure, you need fewer supplies, but it will take 10X as long, with 10X as much work, to gather said supplies. The "division of labor" is an actual thing, you know.

 

Do you  think human beings formed tribes and clans 150,000+ years ago for shits and giggles? No, they did it because it worked.

[BCBasher 2465]

I still get what he's saying about trusting strangers met in game though. The two I've given a chance solo recognized I had the upper hand at first and just waited for a weak moment to jack me and then meet up with their real friends.