Bullet resistant protection actually giving bullet resistant protection

[Draco122 411]

I do agree that the vest should provide a certain amount of resistance to rounds although if it did I would certainly make it so that the the Plates and Plate Carrier are seperate, meaning survivors will need to find good quality plates in order to get the full protection.

[sachad 1016]

My point is, what does adding this kind of highly realistic military gear even add to the DayZ experience? This isn't MilSim Chernarus. You say vests would be in high demand? I say bullplop. No sane survivor would be running around in full kit, carrying 60-80 pounds of equipment. Today's deathmatch gameplay is decidedly not representative of the end product. Save this stuff for the modders, please.

[cornholio308 33]

My point is, what does adding this kind of highly realistic military gear even add to the DayZ experience? This isn't MilSim Chernarus. You say vests would be in high demand? I say bullplop. No sane survivor would be running around in full kit, carrying 60-80 pounds of equipment. Today's deathmatch gameplay is decidedly not representative of the end product. Save this stuff for the modders, please.

If you cannot see what it can add to the experience then with no offence I am not going to try explain it to you as you haven't got the ability to think from the prospective of an individual that is in a far different world than we live in today. I'll say this though, am I talking about adding armoured vehicles or anti material rifles or am I talking about protection from bullets "as bullet resistance vests are designed to do" protecting your character's torso giving you the ability to be shot at for what ever reason with an increased chance of survival. STOP THINKING VESTS ARE AN ASSAULT WEAPON AND THINK OF IT FROM THE PROSPECTIVE OF PROTECTION AND INCREASING SURVIVAL IN COMBAT. 

 

I could take your mentality and say why have they added weapons to the game? this isn't a military shooter?.. See my point. Strip your mind of "military this and military that" and think "what is out there in the world that I could use to increase my chance of survival"

 

No sane survivor would be running around in full kit? I'd say you are dead wrong. Soldiers walk around with bullet resistant vests, and before you try act smart, no one in their right mind would walk around in full military gear today where there is no need to carry around that gear because there is no imidiate risk of being shot, CORRECT. But this game is not set in a time where there is no immediate risk of being shot now is it? So yes. It would be considered a very sane thing to protect ones life by protecting ones body from harm and death. 

Edited March 1, 2015 by Cornholio308

[sachad 1016]

Like I said, this isn't MilSim. Soldiers train very hard to be able to operate with their heavy equipment. Regular, untrained folk, i.e. the type of people we are representing in the game, would collapse from exhaustion, dehydration and the various other nasty things Chernarus will throw at them. They'd never get away from hordes, let alone players. You're operating from the mindset that this game is going to remain the deathmatch it is today and that bullets will whistle past your ears wherever you go. That's not where this game is headed.

 

And yes, I do believe the focus should be on adding more civilian weapons and equipment, instead of military-grade.

[cornholio308 33]

Like I said, this isn't MilSim. Soldiers train very hard to be able to operate with their heavy equipment. Regular, untrained folk, i.e. the type of people we are representing in the game, would collapse from exhaustion, dehydration and the various other nasty things Chernarus will throw at them. They'd never get away from hordes, let alone players. You're operating from the mindset that this game is going to remain the deathmatch it is today and that bullets will whistle past your ears wherever you go. That's not where this game is headed.

 

And yes, I do believe the focus should be on adding more civilian weapons and equipment, instead of military-grade.

 

Mate, you must think soldiers are super humans. Most of the training soldiers get is to see if they can take an order and follow through. They need to be reliable! And used to the stresses of combat so not to lose their shit and start panicking when things get going. Physically they are fit but there are just as many stronger men walking around the streets without any military training. Look at most men in afghanistan and you can see some of them are very well built yet some of them are on the thinner side neither of them bursting with muscle and super human strength. If you cannot carry a 12kg vest with the rest of what you are carrying then you are extremely weak. Men and women today carry around all their gear in weather they are not used too considering they are not from afghanistan and do you see them collapsing and dying? So I highly doubt an average joe would collapse from any of those reasons in a eastern european country "A lot colder than afghanistan that's for sure. Of course not over straining yourself so you are light on your feet is a wise move but not protecting your torso from projectiles that will more than likely find there way in your direction is a risk I wouldn't take.

 

Let me explain something to you, as long as weapons are in this game. The bullets will have my name on them. With every offensive weapon there must be a defensive weapon to balance the tide. When there was heat seeking missiles capable of taking out aircraft by the mere heat of their engines flares were the answer for protection. When the sword was used there was chain mail and other forms of armour to protect against its blade. The same goes for bullets and the protection to stop them before entering your body. 

 

Your mindset is operating like this game is about PVE only gameplay where the only weapon the enemy at the time has is their teeth and fingers.

 

Don't get the wrong idea about me thinking I am just a PVP nutcase, The fact that there are weapons and fully automatic assault rifles and military grade clothing and items tells us that this game has a very firm grasp on what would really happen. Yes weapons and gear normally used by military would find their hands into people that were never in the military because those things are sometimes more effective and better for survival than standard civilian items and weaponry. The correct amount of protection from these weapons should be there too, civilian or not. If you want to be a pacifist then by all means do that. A bullet resistant vest just might save you one day when a crazed ass monkey decides its a wonderful idea to shoot you for no reason with his mosin from a bush. 

Edited March 1, 2015 by Cornholio308

[sachad 1016]

See, I've found a much more viable tactic of not getting bullets into my body. I mind my surroundings, and don't wander around in the open. And the people shooting at you are idiots, since they're attracting a lot of unwanted attention. And what do you think will happen when you take a Mosin shot or a couple AK rounds to the chest while wearing a vest? You may not die, but you're still going down. There's only so much damage they can prevent.

 

Also, you're describing arms races. If vests start protecting people, others will clamor for armor piercing rounds. Then that will lead to people wanting armored vehicles to hide in, and then we'll want RPGs to destroy them... Two months later, we're playing Battlefield Chernarus.

 

Like I said, leave that stuff to the modding community. As soon as the game is properly released, they will go to work on things like this. Then everyone can play however they like.

[cornholio308 33]

See, I've found a much more viable tactic of not getting bullets into my body. I mind my surroundings, and don't wander around in the open. And the people shooting at you are idiots, since they're attracting a lot of unwanted attention. And what do you think will happen when you take a Mosin shot or a couple AK rounds to the chest while wearing a vest? You may not die, but you're still going down. There's only so much damage they can prevent.

 

Also, you're describing arms races. If vests start protecting people, others will clamor for armor piercing rounds. Then that will lead to people wanting armored vehicles to hide in, and then we'll want RPGs to destroy them... Two months later, we're playing Battlefield Chernarus.

 

Like I said, leave that stuff to the modding community. As soon as the game is properly released, they will go to work on things like this. Then everyone can play however they like.

 

See, I've found a much more viable tactic of not getting bullets into my body. I mind my surroundings, and don't wander around in the open. And the people shooting at you are idiots, since they're attracting a lot of unwanted attention. And what do you think will happen when you take a Mosin shot or a couple AK rounds to the chest while wearing a vest? You may not die, but you're still going down. There's only so much damage they can prevent.

This proves you have not been reading what I have said previously, I will not reply to you any more because of this. No pun intended

 

Also I dont believe a modding community can pull this off, it needs to be made by the dev team not by modders.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Cornholio308

[-Gews- 7443]

See, I've found a much more viable tactic of not getting bullets into my body. I mind my surroundings, and don't wander around in the open. And the people shooting at you are idiots, since they're attracting a lot of unwanted attention. And what do you think will happen when you take a Mosin shot or a couple AK rounds to the chest while wearing a vest? You may not die, but you're still going down. There's only so much damage they can prevent.

 

Also, you're describing arms races. If vests start protecting people, others will clamor for armor piercing rounds. Then that will lead to people wanting armored vehicles to hide in, and then we'll want RPGs to destroy them... Two months later, we're playing Battlefield Chernarus.

 

Like I said, leave that stuff to the modding community. As soon as the game is properly released, they will go to work on things like this. Then everyone can play however they like.

The vest is in the game. It should work properly. Period.

[Xoon (DayZ) 1]

To make a summary here:

The plate carrier was added and is unrealistic/bugged.

And Cornholio308 wants it to be fixed.

Also he talks about how this would be helpful for social players, pretty much to survive a shot when he is helping someone or simply walking down the road.

Sacha thinks the addition of the plate carrier was a bad idea and is afraid of power creep. On top of this he sees dodging bullets and staying hidden as a better tactic to survive.

 

And here we have a split:

 

If i were to follow Sacha's tactics i would end up as a paranoid, lone wolf and kinda isolating myself, but i would be almost immortal.

 

While Corn wants to meet people and help/kill/eat/torture/make friends/kidnap/lure them.

 

And yeah, full body armor weights a lot, this is why the dev are adding a weight system (I think at least).

 

And about the power creep, devs will never add a anti-material rifle, and if they do, i guess we will panic.

 

And hey, AP rounds aren't useless against body armor. Simpy they will always defeat body armor at a distance (Like a helmet being bulletproof up to around 200m)

[sachad 1016]

 

 

If i were to follow Sacha's tactics i would end up as a paranoid, lone wolf and kinda isolating myself, but i would be almost immortal.

 

 

I'm no lone wolf, I'm simply cautious. I don't run around towns in the middle of the street like a carefree idiot, I sneak through gardens and go from cover to cover, making sure my presence is masked. When encountering players I try to observe their behavior, and if I do decide to engage them, I make sure I always have an exit strategy. I don't need to bother with armor (which will get ruined after taking a few hits anyhow). I don't have a problem with them per se, more with the silly discussions that come with it. When you're talking about adding AP rounds to counter plate carriers in a survival game, or an anti-game, if you will, then that, to me, is a step in the wrong direction.

 

If you ask me, if your playing style requires heavy armor to keep you alive, maybe it's time to reconsider your playing style.

[Xoon (DayZ) 1]

I'm no lone wolf, I'm simply cautious. I don't run around towns in the middle of the street like a carefree idiot, I sneak through gardens and go from cover to cover, making sure my presence is masked. When encountering players I try to observe their behavior, and if I do decide to engage them, I make sure I always have an exit strategy. I don't need to bother with armor (which will get ruined after taking a few hits anyhow). I don't have a problem with them per se, more with the silly discussions that come with it. When you're talking about adding AP rounds to counter plate carriers in a survival game, or an anti-game, if you will, then that, to me, is a step in the wrong direction.

 

If you ask me, if your playing style requires heavy armor to keep you alive, maybe it's time to reconsider your playing style.

Heavy armor ey? Does leather pants an an improvised bow sound like heavy armored or well protected? 

And even how causes you are, you will die by the random guy with an AK, you will die by the mosin sniper and you will die by a squad of bandits. 

 

To say here, i am not for body armor, i am just saying that your play style docent suit everyone.

 

I for example never carry guns (unless i hunt or is needed to defend someone). And i don't wear military clothing, backpacks or helmets because they make me look hostile. Not carrying a gun helps a lot when you want to avoid KOS. And why would i need body armor anyways? So that i could carry less food to give away? I don't fear death in this game.

But for the ones that do, a west will make them less paranoid and boost their courage to meet other players.

[sachad 1016]

Heavy armor ey? Does leather pants an an improvised bow sound like heavy armored or well protected? 

And even how causes you are, you will die by the random guy with an AK, you will die by the mosin sniper and you will die by a squad of bandits. 

 

To say here, i am not for body armor, i am just saying that your play style docent suit everyone.

 

I for example never carry guns (unless i hunt or is needed to defend someone). And i don't wear military clothing, backpacks or helmets because they make me look hostile. Not carrying a gun helps a lot when you want to avoid KOS. And why would i need body armor anyways? So that i could carry less food to give away? I don't fear death in this game.

But for the ones that do, a west will make them less paranoid and boost their courage to meet other players.

 

True, there is always a chance that people still spot you, but even then you can make it difficult for them. Always assume someone is watching. Don't stand still in open terrain. If you need to eat or drink or bandage, find a spot that is easily covered. Move like smoke and leave no trail. Recently I've begun making sure I don't 'alter' the environment, for example by leaving doors as I find them. If open, I leave them open. If closed, I close them behind me. As if I was never even there.

 

Personally, I find that not having a gun makes you more of a target, since most people who kill on sight are the kind who prefer easy kills. And paranoia keeps you alive. If you approach an armed player while wearing a vest, how do you rate your chances of not getting your head blown off and your vest stolen? Or shot in the legs and unable to move, then getting your head blown off and your vest stolen? It'd only provide a false sense of security IMO, since your legs and face are still woefully exposed. 

[Xoon (DayZ) 1]

True, there is always a chance that people still spot you, but even then you can make it difficult for them. Always assume someone is watching. Don't stand still in open terrain. If you need to eat or drink or bandage, find a spot that is easily covered. Move like smoke and leave no trail. Recently I've begun making sure I don't 'alter' the environment, for example by leaving doors as I find them. If open, I leave them open. If closed, I close them behind me. As if I was never even there.

 

Personally, I find that not having a gun makes you more of a target, since most people who kill on sight are the kind who prefer easy kills. And paranoia keeps you alive. If you approach an armed player while wearing a vest, how do you rate your chances of not getting your head blown off and your vest stolen? Or shot in the legs and unable to move, then getting your head blown off and your vest stolen? It'd only provide a false sense of security IMO, since your legs and face are still woefully exposed. 

Well, if you are with low to medium loot players, not having a gun works quite nice, high geared players then to be Full blood bandits or "Heros".

 

And about the paranoia, it is good for you, but bad for others. For example, i meet i guy, and when my high geared friend joined us, well, my friend gunned him down on the spot because he was carrying a gun :S.

 

And yeah, it is common sense to hide while your eating/bandaging/doing stuff.

 

But one ting i hate in this game is trolls, and there are a few.

 

OPS: Lets not derail the topic!

Edited March 1, 2015 by Xoon

[cornholio308 33]

Sorry for not replying in awhile, busy with studying. Let me just say something that I've previously said. Your personal style of playing is completely and utterly besides the point. If you prefer to play the game a certain way then by all means enjoy that way of playing but do not try tell me your way of playing should be the only way of playing, IF YOU ARE SO GOOD AT BEING STEALTHY THEN IT WOULD NOT MATTER HOW STRONG CONFRONTATIONAL PLAYERS ARE AS THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO CONFRONT YOU, NO?

 

I have clocked in 1000hrs on the standalone already "I know, no lifer!  :rolleyes: " my point is, I have experienced most if not all ways of playing. And as someone stated I am very much a social player. My sense of satisfaction is from meeting people, having them try to kill me and fail in glorious fashion or just group up and socialize like human beings and have an authentic believable world to explore.

 

If you can sit there and try give reasons why anything from our own world should not be in this game that is trying to do one thing and one thing only, Give us as much real life items and variables to create our own stories. Then you are just scared out of your mind of change and want to hold all the cards in your hand "your play style".

 

DayZ is trying to mimic the bodies need for hydration and nutrients, Firearms try to mimic the real thing. Vehicles try to mimic the real thing, everything is trying to mimic the real thing. If I said dayz would be better with more content then someone would try argue why it shouldn't be in the game, but why? Sometimes its due to you believing its not possible. But what I can see happening here from the opposition of the vest behaving realistically is just fear of a "as stated before power creep not in favour of your playing style" So I think anyone who is logically thinking can agree. This is not a debate IF the vest should be in the game. It's a matter of, does the development team have the same thought on the matter. I mean they have added the vest to the game, That's the first step. But do they actually know how the vest should perform? Or are they actually aware but have their own idea of how it should perform? It would be wonderful if they could take a moment to let us know what is happening here. Let's not forget the only reason this game is being made is because of our money that we gave to you in return we can use this software "game". I am not trying to sound like a self centred brat but the facts are the facts. There are many development teams now "the most well known would be Cloud Imperium Games that is currently developing star citizen" that have no issue taking time away to clear up where the game is headed and what is being changed without acting like a money craving machine like EA and other such developers that really try their best to hype the hell out of their games and hide any information about the game like it was a conspiracy. Now I'm aware they might not have people hired for this purpose and it can be tedious however to add a vest that is a pretty big deal considering this form of protection has only really worked in one of bohemia interactive's games is a little odd not to explain what is happening with it or what will become of it in my opinion. 

Edited March 3, 2015 by Cornholio308

[alexoolol 0]

They have recently re-added the plate carrier vest into the game "From what I heard hackers could spawn this item" this vest was literally one of the most anticipated items in the game for me to be added. But sadly as I expected this item to not function at all like most features added to the game I was correct, let me digress 

 

A kevlar vest uses fibres to trap the bullet and stop penetration. A level 2 bullet resistant vest can stop 9mm and 357 magnum at point blank with a level 3A "Also kevlar" being able to stop a 9mm and 44 magnum point blank. Now let's actually compare hard plate vests shall we? A level 3 hard plate vest can stop in its tracks a 7.62x51mm nato ball round. A level 4 hard plate vest can stop a 30-06 ARMOUR PIERCING ROUND!!! 

 

But the plate carrier that's just been added is defeated like any other clothing item in the game, One .380 pistol round goes right through the vest damaging both the vest and your blood level? Remember a bullet has to pass through the bullet resistant material to make contact with flesh. I can understand a kevlar vest giving shock damage when hit but a plate disperses the impact on the plate itself so a plate vest should take all pistol rounds in game with ease shot after shot after shot after shot after shot, I would even dare say the damage to the plate would be so minuscule from pistol rounds you could take a couple of magazines to the same region on the plate and not get through, with the 7.62x51mm nato being stopped for a far lesser amount. 

 

how it should be 

 

Kevlar vest if added "Pistol rounds should not go through, remember its fibre so it can take multiple shots without breaking apart like plate armour so no blood damage should be dealt and if there is it should be a tiny amount as bruising would take place and possible internal bleeding though what is more likely is a superficial wound like being hit by a really powerful paint ball causing broken skin bleeding and a hefty welt. 5.56 and above should go clean through. 

 

Plate vest like I said above should take pistol rounds all day with ease with only the 7.62x51mm nato round doing hefty damage to the plate and able to get through after a few shots. The first shot to the plate should give no blood damage or shock damage and the second should give some shock damage and no blood damage, the third should go through. 

 

Now from personal experience and observation what I have said will offend the knights of dayz and they will be thirsty for blood so let me set a challenge for you to overcome, you WILL say this is over powered and make's the wearer a tank undefeatable by mere mortals, to the vests defence I ask you to take second and think what a real life bullet resistant vest does. Dayz is trying to be realistic? The firearms are trying to mimic the real thing food tries to mimic the real thing the vehicles are trying to mimic the real thing so let's not forget that in real life if a person is shot with a class 4 vest with a 30-06 armour piercing round he will be unscathed. Aim for unprotected area's of the body, the head the neck the arms the legs. 

So what do you think? 

I do believe that the plate carrier should indeed be "legit". I get that this is a bit disappointing, but at the same time it's not like it does not offer any protection: as with vests, it does protect a bit. IMO, vests have a fixed damage neglecting factor and will change to protect more or less as DayZ updates.

Edited March 3, 2015 by MoBZiKK

[cornholio308 33]

Bump, this thread needs to be seen by a developer in my opinion.

[grimlok 77]

Nice 3 month bump.

 

Why don't we just get an actual armour and health indicator like in Quake and also the spawning devices so we can pick up health packs and armour.  Seems this is the game people want.

[cornholio308 33]

Nice 3 month bump.

 

Why don't we just get an actual armour and health indicator like in Quake and also the spawning devices so we can pick up health packs and armour.  Seems this is the game people want.

Re-read what you just said this time in the mindset of someone who isn't a complete tool. Took 0 time to read any of the posts and is just here to troll, reported. 

Edited July 13, 2015 by Cornholio308

[grimlok 77]

Re-read what you just said this time in the mindset of someone who isn't a complete tool. Took 0 time to read any of the posts and is just here to troll, reported. 

I read your thread and what you're wanting is invincibility.  Again, nice 3 month bump which means no one else was agreeing or interested anymore

[pale1776 375]

Well the Hero skin in the Mod stopped pistol rounds due to its vest, so why not just make the vests stop pistols just for the sake of it being a game?

[Whyherro123 2283]

Having a "bulletproof vest" in a post-apocalyptic situation would not be awesome. Trade off heavy weight, reduced running capacity, and encumbrance for the ability to tank a couple of bullets?

 

Yes, a ballistics vest would prevent pistol-calibers from entering your body, even differing rifle-calibers depending on the type and style of plate. However, the forces involved would still knock you over, wind you, or even break bones depending on how and where you were hit. Eminently survival-able, even relatively minor, in a place with "modern" medical facilities and materials. In a situation without electricity, no surgery, barely any medicines or antibiotics, no trained medical personnel, and I am not so sure that I would want to survive that. Nothing like a long, slow, painful death via bone infection to make you regret your life choices.

 

In literally almost every situation, concealment and cover beats "armor". And, in the situations where "armor" might be useful, you are probably better off taking especial care to ensure you can't be hit, rather than trucking around in several kilograms of dead-weight-plate. Strike from ambush, use aggressive skirmishing tactics, effective use of grenades and assault weapons, rather than strapping on some armor.

 

If I came across some (working) armor in-game, 99% of the time I would pass it up. For the weight and encumbrance the armor gives, I could carry 5X more magazines, more grenades, and more supplies, especially water. My tactics are not supported by the wearing of ballistics plate. 

 

Should it work "properly" considering that it is in-game? Of course. But, there should be some severe trade-offs. Weight, the (relatively high) possibility of injury, encumbrance , etc, all for the ability to tank a few (like, 2 or 3) rifle rounds.

[cornholio308 33]

I read your thread and what you're wanting is invincibility.  Again, nice 3 month bump which means no one else was agreeing or interested anymore

Not necessarily as people are still commenting now, try use some logic. 

[OrLoK 16182]

Hello there

 

Dont bump dead posts. 3 months is a little too much.

 

Make a new thread (NOT a copy and paste).

 

Also, dont insult or be rude to other posters.

 

Closing.

 

Rgds

 

LoK