The Winchester Model 70 discussion thread

[Whyherro123 2283]

Why not take a Mosin then? Having only two shots is a terrible liability in battle. 7.62x39 is as common as finding the Moisin 7.62 ammo that the Blaze uses, I have no trouble keeping my AKM fed.

.....Because I prefer the Blaze? I don't like the Mosins iron sights. And using speedloaders and a fast hand on the TAB button (alongside a well organized inventory), I can achieve a fire rate that, over time, is at least similar to the Mosin.

 

I also don't lay down in one "secret sniper spot" (really known to everyone), nor so I stand out in the middle of the street like I see so many coastal bandits do. I pop behind a stone wall, sneak off a shot to suppress, move to another piece of cover while reloading, pop off another shot (suppressing them again), move into close cover, etc etc etc kind of like peeling an apple. I've only gotten killed once using a Blaze to PvP; I got cornered, and I STILL killed three of them before they managed to get me.

 

I've also gotten killed more times using an assault rifle to PvP than I have using the Blaze. I hold the belief that having an assault rifle is rather like wearing a bicycle helmet; yes, they make you safer, but, because of  this, you tend to make really bad choices, which end up making you less safe than if you didn't have a helmet on in the first place. (This is an actual phenomena, look it up).

 

I've seen assault-rifle wielding guys stand in a field, or in the middle of the street, while mag-dumping and NEVER hitting anything. They think because they have an automatic weapon, they are "invincible", when all they are doing is telling actually skilled players how much of a dumbass they are. 

 

"Effectiveness in PvP" in Day Z is more dependent on skill with a particular weapon, tactics, and level-headedness, than it is dependent on the viability of any particular weapon. So, an AKM will give you a solid boost, but that guy with the Blaze, who is really good with it, actually using solid tactics (cover, suppression, etc), and keeps a solid head rather than freaking out, will usually win.

 

Last life, I made a bow and improvised arrows. I got 13 kills in a row by ambushing players in Kamyshovo. The Bow, probably the worst ranged weapon in the game at this point. It all comes down to skill and strategy.

[jukaga 271]

You'll get no argument from me regarding most players' suicidal tendencies when popping off with an AR. :D Though I've seen that behavior with people who had the shotgun but you have a point in that it gives the less experienced players out there a sense of safety that causes them to play stupid.

[ege (DayZ) 0]

The fact that they are going to remove the Mosin's ability to use the LRS actually makes me happy. And before you go and say "haha only bcuz u git kiled bye snipars cuz u suk", keep in mind the Mosin doesn't have a Picatinny rail system. The LRS (by the look of the model) requires a Picatinny rail to be mounted.

 

Now is about the time to give weapons their own specific stats and let them all have their Pros and Cons.

 

Right now the SKS, AKM, and CZ527 all have the same stats. The Aug and M4A1 are literally the same weapon but with a different skin.

do you think thats why they are removing it ? you can mount lrs scope using ducktape if you wanted or you can change parts of mosing with custom kit. If devs are going with the realistic theme why not 

[Whyherro123 2283]

do you think thats why they are removing it ? you can mount lrs scope using ducktape if you wanted or you can change parts of mosing with custom kit. If devs are going with the realistic theme why not 

How the hell would you reliably zero a scope that is strapped to a rifle with duct tape?

[ege (DayZ) 0]

How the hell would you reliably zero a scope that is strapped to a rifle with duct tape?

reliable and ducktape in same sentence ?

[Whyherro123 2283]

reliable and ducktape in same sentence ?

Do you know how firearms work? How scopes work? If you can't rely on the accuracy of the optics mounted to your rifle, why the hell would you mount it?

[ege (DayZ) 0]

Do you know how firearms work? How scopes work? If you can't rely on the accuracy of the optics mounted to your rifle, why the hell would you mount it?

you talk like you know quantum physics i know how firearms work  thats not the point

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Do you know how firearms work? How scopes work? If you can't rely on the accuracy of the optics mounted to your rifle, why the hell would you mount it?

People want to be able to make fortresses from sticks and stones so duct taping a scope to a rifle doesn't seem far fetched now, does it?  :huh:

[Insane Ruffles 74]

Yes the first hint that the lrs is placeholder for me is the reticle . You wouldn't find a duplex reticle on what looks like a high end scope.

Really hoping the mosin becomes the low end inaccurate rifle in the game.

The pu scope should be removed from the sks too.

"low end inaccurate rifle." I thought you were one of those "Dayz realists?" The Mosin has been known throughout history as the cheapest accurate rifle you can get. The Mosin Nagant is accurate from above 500m to even 1,000m away. The only problem is that the iron sights are pretty lacking, and you will only be able to see an enemy effectively through them at about 200m. If you think the Mosin is a pos rifle, then you have no clue about the gun, and this is coming from a collector of them. I have bought PU Mosins and different variants of scoped ones also. All of them originated from world war 2, and when you put a proper scope on the Mosin, damn is that thing accurate. Vaselli Zeitsev didn't become one of the best snipers in WW2 with a pos rifle.

 

Also, PU variants of the Mosin should exist in game, and the SKS should require a mount to have one.

[gibonez 3633]

If it was good enough for Vasili Zaitsev, it should be good enough for us. Seriously, that's what Soviet snipers had to use in WW2, and they did fine.

 

 

Yea good enough back in 1944 and during ww2.

 

Not good enough today. Age takes its toll on equipment add to this the poor quality and more importantly inconsistency of military surplus ammo and you have one inaccurate rifle in the mosin.

 

Mosin should be shooting 5 inch patterns at 100 m.

 

 

"low end inaccurate rifle." I thought you were one of those "Dayz realists?" The Mosin has been known throughout history as the cheapest accurate rifle you can get. The Mosin Nagant is accurate from above 500m to even 1,000m away. The only problem is that the iron sights are pretty lacking, and you will only be able to see an enemy effectively through them at about 200m. If you think the Mosin is a pos rifle, then you have no clue about the gun, and this is coming from a collector of them. I have bought PU Mosins and different variants of scoped ones also. All of them originated from world war 2, and when you put a proper scope on the Mosin, damn is that thing accurate. Vaselli Zeitsev didn't become one of the best snipers in WW2 with a pos rifle.

 

Also, PU variants of the Mosin should exist in game, and the SKS should require a mount to have one.

 

Nope mosins have never been known for their accuracy never I repeat never.

 

The most remarkable trait of a mosin is its reliability its extremely rugged.

 

The most remarkable contemporary thing the mosin is known for is for being a cheap ass hell rifle to buy and shoot with the super low prices of 7.62x54r.

 

No off the racks mosin will be hitting anything at 500 or 1000m atleast not consistently just about any new production hunting rifle will outshoot that mosin.

 

In fact the amount of work to get a mosin to even match the accuracy of a new modern production bolt gun is not even worth the trouble.

Edited December 8, 2014 by gibonez

[Whyherro123 2283]

People want to be able to make fortresses from sticks and stones so duct taping a scope to a rifle doesn't seem far fetched now, does it?  :huh:

Considering how you can make a pretty defensible and comfortable log cabin with 4 guys and about 2 weeks of work, it isn't that far-fetched to be able to build a palisade 

 

\

 

with a similar amount of real-world time, or even less, as a palisade does not require seasoned, notched logs. All you do is dig a ditch, stand logs upright, fill in ditch, and use the extra soil to build up the inside, giving a platform to stand on. A 30 foot by 30 foot palisade would require 5 days or so, assuming they are using hand-tools to dig the ditch (which really only has to be 2 feet or so deep), and having plentiful materials nearby (Lodgepole Pines?)  A tractor with some attachments (backhoe, dozer blade, etc), which I have seen numerous advertisements for across Chernarus (maybe an in-the-works vehicle? -WANT-) would make this work even faster.

 

Said 30' x 30' palisade would have enough interior space for a couple of tents, a vehicle, and some workspace. So, not ALL that unreasonable. The walls aren't bulletproof, but DO prevent egress, unless someone wants to climb over them (some razorwire at the top would prevent that), pull some of the logs out of the ground (difficult, and near-impossible if they are boarded or tied together, which a lot of palisade stakes were, chop through them (LOTS of noise), or...just bust in through the main gate.

 

Of course, not EVERYONE and their mother should have a palisade around their camp. It would, and should, take a lot of work and time. But, it IS possible, even with basic hand tools....... Think of the sieges! Water would be a problem, unless they were smart and built it around a pond or a well.........

 

Uh....how this was related to duct-taping a scope to a rifle, I dunno. I just got all excited for basebuilding.....

[Insane Ruffles 74]

Yea good enough back in 1944 and during ww2.

 

Not good enough today. Age takes its toll on equipment add to this the poor quality and more importantly inconsistency of military surplus ammo and you have one inaccurate rifle in the mosin.

 

Mosin should be shooting 5 inch patterns at 100 m.

 

 

 

Nope mosins have never been known for their accuracy never I repeat never.

 

The most remarkable trait of a mosin is its reliability its extremely rugged.

 

The most remarkable contemporary thing the mosin is known for is for being a cheap ass hell rifle to buy and shoot with the super low prices of 7.62x54r.

 

No off the racks mosin will be hitting anything at 500 or 1000m atleast not consistently just about any new production hunting rifle will outshoot that mosin.

 

In fact the amount of work to get a mosin to even match the accuracy of a new modern production bolt gun is not even worth the trouble.

Again another comment from the peanut gallery. You literally have no clue about the Mosin other than what you have read on various rifle forums. As I have said before, I am a collector of the rifle and have fired many, many versions of them. I have only come across 9 or 10 rifles that are irrevocably inaccurate in the 100's that I have fired. It only costs around 20 dollars to have a Mosin accurised with a laser sight, and its accuracy can even mirror more modern rifles. You do not even need a laser to accurise it either, you can do it by hand if need be.

 

The only reason people think the Mosin is a glorified musket is because the sights tend to get knocked off a bit since they have been sitting around for over half a century. Other than that, the Cosmoline has done a pretty damn good job of preserving the rifles, save for some pitting and surface rust that I have seen. Mosin accuracy is also heavily dependent on the barrel bands, which can make or break the rifle. When inspecting a Mosin, you always look at the barrel bands, and if they are tight then the Mosin will be accurate if it doesn't have any other irregular deformities. Other than that, barrel bands can very easily be replaced.

 

Don't criticize what you don't know.

[jukaga 271]

If people are going to start putting up pallisades, I want to be able to make a ballista!

[WilliamMort 18]

The mentality that its completely normal to find firearms everywhere and that even military grade weapons are quite common.

 

It pisses me off whenever someone uses this argument, Why? Because i mean how do you imagine the government enforces any sort of firearms regulation when the police force and millitary is 90% zombified 10% dead right they dont, In a scenario like dayz where the country is overrun you would be able to find high end millitary rifles even in the cities of off the corpses of former soldiers, People need to realize that the apocalypse means a couple of things that are relevant to firearms laws #1 Noone is enforcing them #2 Noone is guarding millitary armories (Which usually have a LOT more than a single akm ak101 ak74/ak74u) In them.

[Deathlove 2280]

It pisses me off whenever someone uses this argument, Why? Because i mean how do you imagine the government enforces any sort of firearms regulation when the police force and millitary is 90% zombified 10% dead right they dont, In a scenario like dayz where the country is overrun you would be able to find high end millitary rifles even in the cities of off the corpses of former soldiers, People need to realize that the apocalypse means a couple of things that are relevant to firearms laws #1 Noone is enforcing them #2 Noone is guarding millitary armories (Which usually have a LOT more than a single akm ak101 ak74/ak74u) In them.

People are afraid of this logic though because they want balance in a game for a zombie apocalypse for weapons that were NEVER meant to be balanced in the first place in real life. Specific weapons were built to give you an edge over others in certain areas. People are afraid the survival element will get lost but as of now and maybe not for a long time even if harsher punishments get put in there will still be death matches even with or without the best guns you can get ahold of.

 

Oh and we cant forget EVERYONE is an expert on a zombie apocalypse that hasn't even fucking happened yet. XD

Edited December 8, 2014 by Deathlove

[igor-vk 909]

I think rifles used by regular infantry were not very accurate. They were made in hudge quantities by purely trained work force. Soviet infantry didn't last long enough to zero their rifles.

Rifles used by snipers were selected among thousands tested in factories.

And btw, worlds best sniper, "The white death" didn't even use optics.

Edited December 8, 2014 by igor-vk

[gibonez 3633]

Again another comment from the peanut gallery. You literally have no clue about the Mosin other than what you have read on various rifle forums. As I have said before, I am a collector of the rifle and have fired many, many versions of them. I have only come across 9 or 10 rifles that are irrevocably inaccurate in the 100's that I have fired. It only costs around 20 dollars to have a Mosin accurised with a laser sight, and its accuracy can even mirror more modern rifles. You do not even need a laser to accurise it either, you can do it by hand if need be.

 

The only reason people think the Mosin is a glorified musket is because the sights tend to get knocked off a bit since they have been sitting around for over half a century. Other than that, the Cosmoline has done a pretty damn good job of preserving the rifles, save for some pitting and surface rust that I have seen. Mosin accuracy is also heavily dependent on the barrel bands, which can make or break the rifle. When inspecting a Mosin, you always look at the barrel bands, and if they are tight then the Mosin will be accurate if it doesn't have any other irregular deformities. Other than that, barrel bands can very easily be replaced.

 

Don't criticize what you don't know.

 

.... I have shot them garbage rifles but fun nontheless.

 

Where does this thought that a 100 year old military surplus rifle that was mass produced in the millions would be precision rifles especially when using bad quality ammo.

 

Say you do find a perfect preserved example of a mosin , flawless bore, perfect crown , unusually crisp trigger. Even then the ammo is of such various degrees of quality that any precision work would be immediately negated.

 

All I am saying is the VAST majority of mosins are not accurate by any means in fact it should probably be the least accurate rifle in game . The #1 thing needed to be accurate is consistency and mosins are anything but.

[-Gews- 7443]

and GOD FORBID we are handed this rifle with some grinning "7.62x51" cartridges.

Well, it looks like that's what will be happening.

[Evil Minion 943]

Because i mean how do you imagine the government enforces any sort of firearms regulation when the police force and millitary is 90% zombified 10% dead right they dont,

So you want to tell me that after everyone got infected the zombies happy to be free of the gun regulations started to import, buy and distribute weapons? The amount of weapons would not change drastically but of course the distribution would - depending on how fast the infection happened. Collapse of society does not make military weapons more common but only increase your chances to find them outside of military locations - thats exactly what happens when survivors loot bases, camps and crashsites.

Sorry, but "zombies = ARs everywhere" is stupid. If they weren't common before the apocalypse they won't be after.

[Deathlove 2280]

Sorry, but "zombies = ARs everywhere" is stupid. If they weren't common before the apocalypse they won't be after.

But having items spawning only at set locations such as downed choppers seems unrealistic and silly though as well. Wouldn't it make more sense to spread the weapons out? Give them a small chance to spawn but really give them more than just the same damn predictable locations over and over again.

 

Im not asking for M4A1s or Augs in every single spot thats military and police based but they should still have a chance to spawn regardless rarely. Choppers can still be a thing ppl want to hunt for the most but there needs to be other outlets besides gimmicky crashes for ppl to find things.

[TGPstolas 20]

The mentality that its completely normal to find firearms everywhere and that even military grade weapons are quite common.

Come to the US and thats how things are. i could walk through my neighborhood right now and find a rifle/AR and a handgun with ammo. 

'Murica

[gibonez 3633]

But having items spawning only at set locations such as downed choppers seems unrealistic and silly though as well. Wouldn't it make more sense to spread the weapons out? Give them a small chance to spawn but really give them more than just the same damn predictable locations over and over again.

 

Im not asking for M4A1s or Augs in every single spot thats military and police based but they should still have a chance to spawn regardless rarely. Choppers can still be a thing ppl want to hunt for the most but there needs to be other outlets besides gimmicky crashes for ppl to find things.

 

Those western weapons only being in helicopters is what makes them plausible.

 

Why would you find an m4 or an aug in a Native military base ? it makes sense that you would only find them in western helicopters .

[Deathlove 2280]

Those western weapons only being in helicopters is what makes them plausible.

 

Why would you find an m4 or an aug in a Native military base ? it makes sense that you would only find them in western helicopters .

Just give me options besides gimmicky chopper crashes to find things in and ill complain much much less.

 

Also considering units might be scattered if they survived before something else got to them its possible to find mixed  weapons in various areas. Not just the standard native weapons.

[igor-vk 909]

Chernarus is not USA. Most of weapons there would be hunting rifles. Most of Chernarus doesnt have sewers and hot water, they cant afore AR15 or Remingtons. They can buy rusty shot gun or surplus Mosins, maybe Lugers from black market that were taken from German POWs.

[Deathlove 2280]

Chernarus is not USA. Most of weapons there would be hunting rifles. Most of Chernarus doesnt have sewers and hot water, they cant afore AR15 or Remingtons. They can buy rusty shot gun or surplus Mosins, maybe Lugers from black market that were taken from German POWs.

Well since were looping back around into lore topics wasn't the USA involved quite a bit into this? Like wouldn't there be excessive gun trade with allies to help them take back certain areas?