Increase player interaction by non-trivializing "civilian tasks"

[Evil Minion 943]

I think one of the major reason many players go for KoS lone wolf is that you can basically do everything on your own without too much hazzle making cooperation not worth it because of trust issues. In short: You don't really need other players and it doesn't really benefit you to try and make friends. One of the reason for this is "civilian tasks" being trivalized to simple, realtively short and easy actions leaving only combat as a viable option. If equipment maintenance boils down to carrying around the repair tools and using them on your items there is not much reason to offer repair services to others. If farming consists of planting seeds and coming back after a few a few minutes later everyone can get food without too much effort.

 

Two things are to be considered to make civilian tasks more viable:

 

Tools should be rarer but much more durable

This way there is more emphasis on sharing tools with others instead of everyone carrying all the things needed. Rarer tools make it more conventient to team up with others and share work if something has to be done. However, in order for this to work tools need to be more durable, degrading much slower to ensure suitable performance for shared use. Sharing a sewing kit does not make much sense if it can only repair three pieces of clothing. Also maintenance tools would be affected by rarity as well so tools would need to work longer before getting repairs as repairs would not be commonplace anymore.

 

Tasks should be more complex and time-consuming

If you could do everything instantly you could just raid a village in between fights and use the tools you found there then return to the fight as if you never left. This marginalizes civilian tasks making them a mere annoyance within the gameplay. Things that have to be done but distract from the military playstyles. Now by making civilian tasks more complex their value and impact on gameplay is increased making for viable alternative playstyles.

• farming should take quite some time and plants should require frequent care for best payoff
• repairing items should not be a simple drag&drop actions but require some materials and a little bit of time for the actual repairs
• base building should take a lot of time and require a lot of resources but bases should be quite durable and not destroyed too easily
• technical maintenance should also require materials and also the disassembly of the weapon/device/vehicle
• cooking, medical tasks etc. should provide a higher interactivity instead of being one-action and/or waiting tasks
• most tasks should play an animation to make them unsuitable to do while traveling or fighting
• berries etc. should be stackable
• animals should be pretty shy and elusive as well as more durable (requiring aimed shots to take down) to make hunting more of a task
• resources and food in particular should be much rarer
• there should be a greater variety of illnesses, weather effects and suitable countermeasures

Now this is not meant to stop people from being fighters - if you want you should do it - but rather to make non-fighter playstyles more useful and viable. This gives more options to players who want to roleplay, build or help others and also makes it worthwhile for bandits to rob, raid and pillage. this also gives players something to do if there are no other players to interact with (as doing everything by yourself should keep you busy).

Edited November 25, 2014 by Evil Minion

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Everything is trivial and easy because "Alpha" derp :p.   Placeholders and what-not.  We already get enough threads with people raging about the game being too hard, or they have to run for 10 mins to meet up with their friends.  Once they flesh everything out and can properly balance the loot table, fix the zombies, animations, glitches, crashes, and whatever else is broken, the difficulty will be ramped up.

[shinjuru 114]

Making items rarer will only increase their value and the number of KoSers.

[Mor (DayZ) 57]

I think one of the major reason many players go for KoS lone wolf is that you can basically do everything on your own without too much hazzle making cooperation not worth it because of trust issues. In short: You don't really need other players and it doesn't really benefit you to try and make friends. One of the reason for this is "civilian tasks" being trivalized to simple, realtively short and easy actions leaving only combat as a viable option. [..]

I agree. Although IMO the problem is lack of "end game" prospect. Its the same ol' story once people fully kitted, they get bored and go kill bambis; What else are we to do? maintaining your gear, sound like farmvile time filler; And while few will RP, most will KOS anyone who has so much as a can opener.

As for your suggestions: Don't you think that making civilian task harder, will only make banditry more attractive and encourage the phenomena? Because I don't see how making tools rare will reduce the incentive for people to Kill on sight... as oppose to marking your as mobile high chance loot drop.. Furthermore most people will prefer the adrenalin rush of combat\hostage situation, over hours of farming\maintaining their gear, and you ensure that its best way on time\gain scale ...

To sum it up, while I agree with your sentiment, we can only benefit from increased player cooperation and player economy is good way to achieve it, but with server hopping and our low/random pop servers I don't how it can be done :/

 

Once they flesh everything out and can properly balance the loot table, fix the zombies, animations, glitches, crashes, and whatever else is broken, the difficulty will be ramped up.

Personally, I find the increase difficulty trick to be rater cheap way of adding challenge, like those games that add more hit-points instead of adding more capabilities\scenarios\better AI.. Edited November 25, 2014 by Mor

[Mor (DayZ) 57]

sorry double post.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Mor

[bobotype3334 160]

I don't think farming should take "quite some time" because of the ephemeral nature of one's life in DayZ, but it should take longer than it is now. 20 minutes for a crop of tomatoes to grow is reasonable in my opinion: it feels long enough to draw a parallel to the real life wait and encourage people to go find other sources of food first, but it's not so long that you turn into a skeleton. 

"Bases should not be destroyed easily"
This I really agree with, if you lay down cement and earthwork defences, other Survivors better have to go out and get themselves a damn tank or mortar before even thinking about taking you on. Base building should be a team job, and base siege at least a team effort.

[bobotype3334 160]

I agree. Although IMO the problem is lack of "end game" prospect. Its the same ol' story once people fully kitted, they get bored and go kill bambis; What else are we to do? maintaining your gear, sound like farmvile time filler; And while few will RP, most will KOS anyone who has so much as a can opener.

Could I suggest you take a gander at my humble suggestion here? http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/215346-in-server-objectivesraids/?hl=raid

I think KoS would be a bit less likely if you needed other players' help to start the power up or gain access to an aircraft carrier offshore!

 

[Paxom (DayZ) 30]

I think one of the major reason many players go for KoS lone wolf is that you can basically do everything on your own without too much hazzle making cooperation not worth it because of trust issues. In short: You don't really need other players and it doesn't really benefit you to try and make friends. One of the reason for this is "civilian tasks" being trivalized to simple, realtively short and easy actions leaving only combat as a viable option.

 

I like it. Its all sounds like good ol' Taviana 2017 hardcore (not just 1pp).

[Evil Minion 943]

Making items rarer will only increase their value and the number of KoSers.

Thats why the task themselves should be non-trivialized. To do something it should not be enough to find the tool but you also have to invest time and effort - things you could leave to others if not interested in the work.

As for your suggestions: Don't you think that making civilian task harder, will only make banditry more attractive and encourage the phenomena? Because I don't see how making tools rare will reduce the incentive for people to Kill on sight... as oppose to marking your as mobile high chance loot drop.. Furthermore most people will prefer the adrenalin rush of combat\hostage situation, over hours of farming\maintaining their gear, and you ensure that its best way on time\gain scale ...

Banditry is player interaction as well and this is not a suggestion about reducing banditry or KoS. Its about reducing the "screw others - I can do everything on my own" loners (or making this playstyle much harder) and not making the rewards of civilian labor easily available for everyone. If you eventually get this reward by working on it or by banditry or trading or whatever is your own choice.

 

Sure most people would rather like to go for the combat route - but thats no reason to give them any non-combat reward for free. If you don't want to care about those "lowly weakling stuff" get a weakling friend who does it for you or find a random weakling you can rob or trade with. This also opens more stages for a fight.

 

I don't think farming should take "quite some time" because of the ephemeral nature of one's life in DayZ, but it should take longer than it is now. 20 minutes for a crop of tomatoes to grow is reasonable in my opinion: it feels long enough to draw a parallel to the real life wait and encourage people to go find other sources of food first, but it's not so long that you turn into a skeleton.

I don't think farming should be an immediate way to get some food but rather some kind of "pseudo endgame feature" for longterm survivors that increases the number of food items available.

[pillock 850]

I don't think farming should take "quite some time" because of the ephemeral nature of one's life in DayZ, but it should take longer than it is now. 20 minutes for a crop of tomatoes to grow is reasonable in my opinion: it feels long enough to draw a parallel to the real life wait and encourage people to go find other sources of food first, but it's not so long that you turn into a skeleton. 

"Bases should not be destroyed easily"

This I really agree with, if you lay down cement and earthwork defences, other Survivors better have to go out and get themselves a damn tank or mortar before even thinking about taking you on. Base building should be a team job, and base siege at least a team effort.

 

You aren't likely to be doing this. I think it was in one of the Twitch live streams, Hicks specifically said that player-built structures are likely to be limited to make-shift wooden shacks and shelters: "Players aren't going to be laying foundations or anything like that."

 

As for crops, there's no way you should be planting and harvesting in the same crops in the same play-session, in my view. Once persistence is working properly, there's no reason to allow short farming time. Growing food is not something you do when you;re hungry, so that you can feed yourself now; it's something you do for the long term.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

 

You aren't likely to be doing this. I think it was in one of the Twitch live streams, Hicks specifically said that player-built structures are likely to be limited to make-shift wooden shacks and shelters: "Players aren't going to be laying foundations or anything like that."

 

As for crops, there's no way you should be planting and harvesting in the same crops in the same play-session, in my view. Once persistence is working properly, there's no reason to allow short farming time. Growing food is not something you do when you;re hungry, so that you can feed yourself now; it's something you do for the long term.

Yup, this game is not going to be like Rust where you can gather a few sticks and a couple stones and bam, you got a house.  A friend of mine made a topic about it in January, http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/162376-if-dayz-had-rust-minecraft-esque-style-crafting/#entry1636737, which he was immediately trampled over by moderators and the thread was locked and yarded.

 

I also agree with horticulture, it should take a couple of play sessions(days) before you start to see any results and if you also do not tend to them it should cause a chance of your crop dying.

[Troll_Hunter 54]

I agree with the basic idea of non trivialising work/tasks.

 

Skills.

I think of skills players can find in the form of books and practice, enabling them to do advanced medicine, hunting, mechanics, etc. A group with advanced skills can thrive, with relative ease compared to a lone survivor. The specialisations and specialised tools make individuals important to a group, and to strangers. For instance, when shot in the leg, a bandage and splint get you mobile, but only to a walking/limping speed. Advanced medicine, can do in field operations with chloroform, disinfectant, cord, needle, knife, bandage, to remove the bullet from the leg and allowing a player to run full speed again.

I'm not in favour of maintenance of farms. Planting, and guarding the food farm maybe fun, especially when food loot gets low, or when Bambi is checking out my growing produce and I can take it down for some extra nice protein :D

 

Goal.

At this moment there is no progression and goal beyond getting geared up and fight with others.

This can easily be changed by a global ranking for say the longest survivor. With close up player and rank identification, and longer with binos / scopes, it will become a competition goal.

 

Events / quick scenario games.

The game's environment now is stable, so people can roam around in their favourite spot without needing to adapt the easiest play style.

Admin induced events (disasters) can shake those comfortable players up. A 3 hour (3 dayz days) scenario game might look like this: day1 zombie hordes from the graves, day2 heavy storm, day3 military invasion (A3 zeus), no foot loot respawn (makes farming, hunting, cannibalism, crafting, necessary).

Edited November 25, 2014 by Troll_Hunter

[pilgrim* 3513]

..//..

One of the reason for this is "civilian tasks" being trivalized to simple, realtively short and easy actions leaving only combat as a viable option.

..//..

 This marginalizes civilian tasks making them a mere annoyance within the gameplay. Things that have to be done but distract from the military playstyles.

..//..

 

More durable tools - yes

also - better-sharpening knives and axes

stackable berries, and worms - yes

...

I mainly agree with your list and I hope this is the way the game will go - but still remaining as dangerous and hairy as it is at the moment. And as crazy. Mor says that perhaps  "making civilian task harder, will only make banditry more attractive"

Hey, that could be true - but then you might get a breed of tougher civilians too..  I don't think of that as a risk, it's part of the gameplay - it evolves as things change, but I don't want everyone to be nice moral sweet friendly farmers ( yeegh.. I'd go play some other game). But there is plenty of space for OPs ideas and I'm all for a trend that way.

 

One thing I would like to add to your list, Evil Minion. It's not a civilian task but it will have the same effect as items in your list (it's one little thing):

 

when you change a magazine in a firefight, you press "R" and the mag changes automatically - the empty mag is magically returned to your backpack or wherever.

In fact when you change mags the empty magazine should drop on the ground. This is what happens in real firefights. If you want to keep the empty you go back and pick it up after the fight (same for speed-loaders also).

 

I hope this would add a bit of thought for the players who go around  with 10+ magazines shooting them off whenever they feel. When you change out your magazine, you have to pick up the empty, if you have time.

 

this is a small change - like several of the changes on your list - that could be implemented quite soon in the Alpha if many players wanted them.

 

xx

Edited November 25, 2014 by pilgrim

[Troll_Hunter 54]

About the mag dumping, I think long term, non government funded people much rather take the magazine out and put them in a pouch, to be reused later. However this should be a menu magazine change, or one should have a dump-pouch attached to the pants, just like people use in real life.

So without dump pouch 'r' dumps the mag to the ground. With dump pouch, it dumps it into that.

If you do not have a dump pouch you can pick the empty mag up from the ground, or change the empty mag in the inventory menu.

 

Backpack animation.

Now I think the inventory menu needs a fast animation of the player kneeling and taking off his backpack, and putting his arm into it, and pressing it again will put the backpack back on if it's close. This will remedy the immersion braking and totally unrealistic running while working the inventory menu. It will also make a clear distinction of taking stuff from jacket, vest, pants, by having those items directly accessible through the quick menu slots.

Now a vest makes sense because one can reload much faster from that, because you do not need to take off the backpack.

A put down backpack can function as a gun rest.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Troll_Hunter

[jiggyjoe 43]

In my honest opinion something like :

Sociabilization meter along with sanity and maybe some others, would actually work better than this...

If you don't socialise a lot, you should, after a while, when your meter reached 0 for quite some time (Or got the status message) You should start hearing some voices, your character starting to speak to himself or something

Could also be tied along with sanity meter, more people you butcher / kill, more chances you have to become maybe depressive or agressive, having the shakes...

Socilaising like healing or feeding people, a trade menu where your trading with other players has impact on your sociabilization meter to overcome the killing effects, which would make eventually any player to play on both sides of the fence maximising many experiences and encounters...

But this is the kind of thing that will be probably looked on when they dealt with all the other issues like zombie pathfinding, loot economy... You know the song !

[Mor (DayZ) 57]

And as crazy. Mor says that perhaps  "making civilian task harder, will only make banditry more attractive"

Hey, that could be true - but then you might get a breed of tougher civilians too..  I don't think of that as a risk, it's part of the gameplay - it evolves as things change, but I don't want everyone to be nice moral sweet friendly farmers ( yeegh.. I'd go play some other game). But there is plenty of space for OPs ideas and I'm all for a trend that way.

I don't think that there is place for "maybe"s in discussions about gameplay mechanics e.g. lets un-nerf sniper rifles, maybe then we get a breed of tougher civilians too...

Currently there are three survival mechanics scavenging, banditry and "gathering". The later include hunting\fishing\farming\etc all which are dependent on tools. Hence my reasoning, if you make tools more scarce, it will impact gameplay in a negative way, making banditry the most efficient way to play, which the opposite of what the OP is looking for.

IMO as long as they keep adding functions to tools, and make them all valuable, they don't need to change anything. We already have enough tools so that most player can't have it all unless they are playing in a team and share..

EDIT: With that said I also agree that some aspects like tomato growing times need some balancing.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Mor

[Evil Minion 943]

The points is not to decrease banditry but to increase interaction be it friendly. neutral or hostile. Also its essential to include both parts in any consideration. Its true that by simply making tools more rare banditry would increase - but so would cooperation if only to defend against banditry. In any way "rare" does not mean "exceedingly rare" - but you do not want to provide every tool for every survivor to carry around.

 

Then by also making the tasks nontrivial getting the tool is only a small part - you still have to put in some effort. And thats something the average bandit will probably not do - why kill someone over a Shovel if you do not plan on using a Shovel anyways? If you could claim the reward with a Shovel and little effort you would probably do it and claim the reward but with more complex and difficult tasks the average bandit will just not do it - and in consequence not claim the reward  Unless he goes for a hunt which is risky (because the civilians we are talking about are still other players and probably very capable of defending themselves - this is not sniping helpless freshspawns).

 

Its about providing options and opening possibilities for those who are willing to take them. If "civilian tasks" are too easy too access all their benefits will also benefit loner "bandits", "scavengers" etc. while by making them harder but more rewarding (compared to not getting the reward) people get the benefits either by working on them or by interaction (sharing, trade, banditry).

 

One last note: Tools and items being common does not reduce banditry or KoS because then people would simply not have anying else to do. Currently the "hunting people for their gear" bandit is almost nonexistent. Most of the fights are unrelated to the loot situation and can be attributed to other players simply not having any "use" for the average survivor while being a potential threat/diversion.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Evil Minion

[pilgrim* 3513]

I don't think that there is place for "maybe"s in discussions about gameplay mechanics

..//..

 

Its true, in your first post you did not say "perhaps"

you said "don't you think that.?"....  So I took that whole phrase as you giving an opinion and asking for an opinion, because .."don't you think that".... sounds like a question.

I didn't realize you were laying down the law, Mor.

 

gameplay mechanics = "how the game software works"

gameplay = "what people do with the game"

 

There is no maybe about that. I'm a backwoods gameplayer in DayZ who goes into the high-player zones for fun. I've never been killed by a << bandit >> who killed me for loot, ever, in the game. I've won or lost plenty of shootouts, but no-one was trying to steal food off the farmer's boy.

Also - at present in the game, wasting a player with an AK is a good way to mess up anything useful he may be carrying, unless you want only ammo and another gun.. but no "bandit" ever killed me for my axe or my pants or my food, as far as I can tell..  being killed for fun, yes plenty of times.. fighting with another newspawn over a can-opener.. sure, has happened.. but a guy with a pair of pants and a machete and no backpack and no food or water, is not what I'd call a "bandit".

 

but farming .. also even hunting - in fact crafting in general, is not something that happens a lot in downtown Berezino.  Plenty of players like to kill each other in high-PvP zones, but even now there are not so many who wander the back country looking for tents (for example) - just a few. The number of players who might want to steal my "harder than average to grow" crops, or my "special dificult to find sharpening stone" or my "long lasting pliers and my roll of useful wire" - I can deal with.

Do you really think the PvP players will run in hordes across the map looking for "hard to make" fishing rods ?.. nah, they'll just kill each other for "hard to maintain" automatic weapons, but they won't leave the PvP zones to do that.

 

this is only my opinion, naturally.

[B4GEL 175]

All the people who are friendly in the game in its current state are, at great risk to themselves, friendly for no reason (if you accept that the aim of the game is survival). Adding in game mechanics that encourage cooperation and limiting resources is very unlikely to make these people turn to KOS.

Will adding in these game mechanics give people who do KOS pause for thought before pulling the trigger? I don't know, but i doubt it will do any harm.        

Nice ideas OP!

[ToySmokes 116]

You could also make it vary how long it takes to fix you clothes ect depending on which type it is. Normal civil clothing like a shirt could take maybe say 20 second or even more, while military stuff takes the double or even more the time to fix. Now this would do so that to fix something you don't just do it and then keep looting or what ever. But instead you would have to actually sit down and take your time to do it. Now I think most of you will disagree. But I think that DayZ should be a lot about making the right decisions at the right time and also less about running from town to town and raid. Instead more that you settle in some place where you build your base and organize your life. Now you don't have to settle down ofc. But maybe that it sometimes is the better decision

[bobotype3334 160]

 

You aren't likely to be doing this. I think it was in one of the Twitch live streams, Hicks specifically said that player-built structures are likely to be limited to make-shift wooden shacks and shelters: "Players aren't going to be laying foundations or anything like that."

 

As for crops, there's no way you should be planting and harvesting in the same crops in the same play-session, in my view. Once persistence is working properly, there's no reason to allow short farming time. Growing food is not something you do when you;re hungry, so that you can feed yourself now; it's something you do for the long term.

I honestly 100% remember Rocket saying he wanted players to be able to dig fortifications and underground bases and that they had plans for this in the works, they were saying something about an Evil Genius isometric style too iirc.

[Mor (DayZ) 57]

Its true that by simply making tools more rare banditry would increase - but so would cooperation if only to defend against banditry.

Or more realistically, deepen the trust issues and increase KoS, which is what we can see today. If the suggestion were about adding more military equipment, would you also advocate it because it might encourage "cooperation if only to defend against banditry" :rolleyes:

 

In any way "rare" does not mean "exceedingly rare" - but you do not want to provide every tool for every survivor to carry around.

Going by what we already have as of 0.51 and possible new (leaked) items, no one can carry all tools by himself (I doubt that two people with best carrying capacity can) hence every player already have to prioritize what he needs most and depend on others, especially if they want to start up some bigger projects. - this by it self will encourage cooperation.

While your suggestion to make common tools more rare, isn't realistic as they should be available almost everywhere in rural\industrial areas, will only increase the amount of junk and weapons that will spawn there and per my reason in the previous post encourage PvP KoS type of gameplay.

 

Then by also making the tasks nontrivial getting the tool is only a small part - you still have to put in some effort.

I have no problem with that. Like I said some tasks might need adjusting, but to me the idea of making tools less accessible is the linchpin that ruin or your suggestion.

With that said, here few examples of what I liked:

1. "repairing items should not be a simple drag&drop actions but require some materials and a little bit of time for the actual repairs" - I think that focus should be on the more material part, higher grade civilian/military equipment should require more material to fix i.e. fixing a mountain backpack will require more attention then T-shirt. This both realistic and might discourage people jumping into combat at every opportunity.

2. "resources and food in particular should be much rarer" - With "new" system food and water is one of the things that most do not stock, it is also the most important resource to keep yourself healthy and healing, hence it will encourage bandits to rely on alternative means of acquiring food like hunting.

...

What I don't agree with is:

1. tools should be made more rare - per reason above.

2. tools should be made more durable - this seems like a way to eliminate the need to scavenge for tools and the danger it entails.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Mor

[Evil Minion 943]

Or more realistically, deepen the trust issues and increase KoS, which is what we can see today. If the suggestion were about adding more military equipment, would you also advocate it because it might encourage "cooperation if only to defend against banditry"

No, because a killer playstyle is not banditry - and as already mentioned has almost nothing to do with competition at the moment. The trust issues are another aspect - here the solution might be closer to player idfentification though an actual reward for cooperation would help as well. Thats why all those things should be considered in combination:

• increasing tool rarity without making them more durable makes them not suitable for sharing => kill and take tool for yourself
• increasing tool rarity without nontrivilizing tasks would still make the other person "useless" => kill and take tool for yourself
• making tools more durable without making them rarer would eliminate the need to scavenge and putting yourself in risk
• making tools more durable without nontrivializing taks would have the same effect
• nontrivializing tasks without increasing tool rarity would still work but apply less pressure on people to interact
• nontrivializing taks without making tools more durable would emphasize hoarding of tools

Now a weight/stamina system would mitigate some of those issues but in the end tools should be:

1. rare enough to make "maintain"/"repair" a viable option compared to "replace"
2. rare enough to make finding a specific tool a not-too-easy task
3. rare enough to avoid every survivor having one for him/herself
4. durable enough to allow tool sharing with other survivors
5. durable enough to function with lower travel speed and higher travel risk
6. durable enough to survive a firefight

While your suggestion to make common tools more rare, isn't realistic as they should be available almost everywhere in rural\industrial areas, will only increase the amount of junk and weapons that will spawn there and per my reason in the previous post encourage PvP KoS type of gameplay.

Making one item rarer does not imply making other items more common. You can reduce the overall spawn rate to selectively affect the rarity of some item. Now realistic rarity does still mean "rarer then in 0.50" - sure you would find tools rather easy - but not specific tools (especially if the places don't match like farming tools in industrial areas). And you might not find multiple tools of the same type in one place. Thats just static rarity - basically what should happen if the loot spawns are left alone: You have a good chance of finding a tool in the right place but not a great chance to find multiple tools of the same type.

 

Enter loot dynamics: Players take away stuff and and loot respawns. Here the chances of an item "respawning" (after being taken by a survivor) shouldn't be too high - otherwise it would be just like an infinite supply of tools. Which is hardly realistic. So spawn rates should be adjusted to allow for "unlooted" places with a more realistic amount of tools and "looted" places where the tools are taken away. In terms of game mechanics this means a loot spawn should stay in "looted" state for quite some time and on the other side "wild growth" (loot overspawning) should be avoided. The end result is most likely tools being rarer.

[mangozapp 46]

Vehicles, when they're implemented, are the perfect opportunity for this ethos I think... OP mentions tools being rarer, this could be the case but you might add in a Haynes Workshop Manual or some such which the repairer must have in order to diagnose and repair non trivial faults beyond that of a flat tyre for example. Tooling, repair parts and these manuals could mean players are forced to strip down other items in their inventory so that, in essence, they become a mechanic/driver with reduced combat capabilty - so they need the support/protection of other players. This could also be done by making mechanical operations seriously time consuming i.e. 3 or 4 minutes for a wheel change meaning protection is needed whilst carrying out those operations.

Wheels and other large repair items could take an entire backpack to carry making another player essential for such repairs.

I dreamt a long while back of a 'live' battery system in the Standalone on vehicles - I imagine there being a lot of flat batteries in the apocalypse - so those vehicles had to be 'bump started' - pushed. This would need two players at a minimum. I just thought that could make for some absolutely classic mega-panicky play scenarios with a bunch of you desperately trying to push-start your old Trabant out of Chernogorsk... Leaving the driver in the car with the engine running in case it doesn't start... But... It's probably too much to ask for. :blush: