Quiver + Arrows

[Whyherro123 2283]

So, I was using the improvised bow today to hunt cows (and realized too late that the hide cannot be used for a pack : ( ), and I was thinking about arrows and arrow storage. Just a couple of points:

 

1) In reality, a sharpened wooden tip will not be all that effective.  A stone, bone, glass or metal tip is what causes the damage. 

 

2) How how are we attaching these fletchings? It looks like sinew, but apparently the process is abstracted. This is lame. An animal carcass should be a great resource, with hide, bone, meat, intestines, sinews, etc all having a practical purpose. You can make water-carriers from intestines, just as an aside.

 

3) Right now, carrying arrows is nonsensical. I would hope some sort of quiver is implemented, to make carrying them easier. I have been looking at a Neolithic quiver, made by "Otzi the Iceman", which apparently doesn't even require you tan the hide. Just make rawhide (a simple task), and stitch it together. The pattern looks to be simple and effective, and apparently is water-resistant and can carry a good number of arrows, as well as other important bowyer tools.

 

 

As an aside: does anybody else actually use the bow? From some of the responses on the forum, I kind of think it isn't that popular....

[Mad Scientist 73]

I tried it for a while on 1pp servers (use my 1pp char for full on survival, 3pp char for pvp). The bow just doesn't have the range and accuracy needed to be effective, so I went with the x-bow. I will go back to the bow if the bring in recurve or compound bows with better range, accuracy and damage.

In regards to quivers, they had one for a while that held 5 arrows and took up one slot in your inventory..not sure what happened to them, but we need a quiver (either found or crafted) that takes up the vest/shoulder holster slot that holds 20+ arrows.

Bring in those two things and we will see more robin hoods in the game (also maybe a felt hat with feather for that authentic look!!!)

[Whyherro123 2283]

I tried it for a while on 1pp servers (use my 1pp char for full on survival, 3pp char for pvp). The bow just doesn't have the range and accuracy needed to be effective, so I went with the x-bow. I will go back to the bow if the bring in recurve or compound bows with better range, accuracy and damage.

In regards to quivers, they had one for a while that held 5 arrows and took up one slot in your inventory..not sure what happened to them, but we need a quiver (either found or crafted) that takes up the vest/shoulder holster slot that holds 20+ arrows.

Bring in those two things and we will see more robin hoods in the game (also maybe a felt hat with feather for that authentic look!!!)

I agree with that. Apparently, our in-game characters shake like a crack-head on a 3-day low. I don't know about you, but when I use my bow, the arrows generally go where I aim them, not 6 feet to the left. Today, I was literally 10 feet away from a cow, and I missed with 7 arrows. SEVEN! Should arrows be lasers? No, but they should fly "generally" where you aim them. 

 

As for accuracy and lethality, take a look at this video. 

 

Flatbows (which are the "simplest" bows to make. Recurves are much more difficult, and compound bows are impractical for long-term survival purposes.) are capable of pretty decent accuracy, speed, and damage, as shown about 3 minutes into that video. Guy shoots a deer with a 50 lbs bow, the arrow (obsidian-pointed, so no high-tech here!) punches through both sides of the deer, and it dies within 30 seconds. Sounds plenty lethal to me!

[Mad Scientist 73]

I agree with that. Apparently, our in-game characters shake like a crack-head on a 3-day low. I don't know about you, but when I use my bow, the arrows generally go where I aim them, not 6 feet to the left. Today, I was literally 10 feet away from a cow, and I missed with 7 arrows. SEVEN! Should arrows be lasers? No, but they should fly "generally" where you aim them.

As for accuracy and lethality, take a look at this video.

Flatbows (which are the "simplest" bows to make. Recurves are much more difficult, and compound bows are impractical for long-term survival purposes.) are capable of pretty decent accuracy, speed, and damage, as shown about 3 minutes into that video. Guy shoots a deer with a 50 lbs bow, the arrow (obsidian-pointed, so no high-tech here!) punches through both sides of the deer, and it dies within 30 seconds. Sounds plenty lethal to me!

I wasn't talking about crafting recurves or compound bows but having them spawn in, like the x-bow. The x-bow is actually a compound x-bow, so having a compound bow would be fine regarding long term usage.

You could also include sights for the advanced bows, similar to the x-bow, as spawned items.

They also need to change the way the bow is carried I.e. carrying it over the shoulder instead of sticking out the way it is at the moment, it just looks weird!!!

[Whyherro123 2283]

I wasn't talking about crafting recurves or compound bows but having them spawn in, like the x-bow. The x-bow is actually a compound x-bow, so having a compound bow would be fine regarding long term usage.

You could also include sights for the advanced bows, similar to the x-bow, as spawned items.

They also need to change the way the bow is carried I.e. carrying it over the shoulder instead of sticking out the way it is at the moment, it just looks weird!!!

I meant "impractical" in the sense of "hard/impossible to replace parts in a post-apocalyptic world". A compound bow requires steel cable and cams, while a flatbow/recurve/longbow can be made from wood (well-seasoned wood, but wood nonetheless), and the string made from sinew, twine, or even grass. I tend to view equipment as "effective" mainly if it is sustainable, not just if it is powerful, etc. A compound bow might be more powerful and easy to use than my flatbow, but if that string breaks, you are boned, while I will probably have a couple of spares on me.

 

And, I agree with you on the "carrying" thing. Really, you should unstring the bow after you are done using it, as it is little more than a green branch. Leaving it strung 24/7 will cause it to set in that strung position, and become useless as a bowstave. Bows get their power from the limbs, not the string. 

 

I seriously hope a more in-depth bow is implemented. A stick-bow (which is what the in-game bow is, even if it is a poor example) is really only effective at taking small game, at close range. If you want range, power, and accuracy, you need to carve the actual stave from a limb/stave split from a log.

 

As a slightly related aside, I have become really interested in Neolithic technologies lately. The precision and knowledge that went into their crafts and tools was astounding. Many people think anybody living in the past, especially "cavemen", were stupid brutes. They actually were literally the same people as there are today, with all the intelligence and inventiveness that implies. They weren't dumb, they just didn't have metal, electricity, or the Internet.

[ob1korobi 125]

I'm getting into using the bow and I would definitely like to see a quiver back in the game. My first thought was arrowheads and I didn't know at first that all I needed was sharpened sticks and feathers. I have also found many composite arrows so that is nice too. Have some beans.

[Whyherro123 2283]

I'm getting into using the bow and I would definitely like to see a quiver back in the game. My first thought was arrowheads and I didn't know at first that all I needed was sharpened sticks and feathers. I have also found many composite arrows so that is nice too. Have some beans.

I've thought for a while that there should be three "tiers" of arrows, as well as 3 "tiers" of bow. They would increase in "effectiveness" as you go up the tiers.

 

Arrows:

Tier 1: field-expedient arrow, with sharpened wood tip and duct-tape fletching. Quick and and easy to make, but low damage, light bleeding, and worst "accuracy" (raw dispersion) of all the arrows.

Tier 2: improvised arrow, with a metal (

) or glass (

) heads, and glued-on feather fletchings. Good damage and bleed (just watch that video I posted above. That deer is dead in literally seconds), and average "accuracy". Best arrow you can make on your own.

Tier 3: Composite arrows. Smallest realistic "accuracy" (raw dispersion) Only found as loot spawns

 

Bows:

Tier 1: Stickbow. Take a stick, carve it down (couple of minutes game-time?), and attach a string. Lowest power, worst accuracy, smallest range.

Tier 2: Flatbow. Take a log (piece of firewood?), carve it down (should take significantly longer than stickbow) Decent power, decent accuracy, decent (at least 30 meters) range. Best bow you can make on your own.

Tier 3: Compound bow. Only found as loot spawn. Highest damage, highest range, highest power.

 

Also, you shouldn't be able to draw a bow and hold it back as easily as we do. With the exception of compound bows, which "take" most of the draw weight, using a bow is usually "aim, then draw and shoot quickly", because you personally are holding a lot of weight. Compounds are more of "draw, aim, aim some more (using sights), then shoot).

[Mad Scientist 73]

I've thought for a while that there should be three "tiers" of arrows, as well as 3 "tiers" of bow. They would increase in "effectiveness" as you go up the tiers.

Arrows:

Tier 1: field-expedient arrow, with sharpened wood tip and duct-tape fletching. Quick and and easy to make, but low damage, light bleeding, and worst "accuracy" (raw dispersion) of all the arrows.

Tier 2: improvised arrow, with a metal (

) or glass (

) heads, and glued-on feather fletchings. Good damage and bleed (just watch that video I posted above. That deer is dead in literally seconds), and average "accuracy". Best arrow you can make on your own.

Tier 3: Composite arrows. Smallest realistic "accuracy" (raw dispersion) Only found as loot spawns

Bows:

Tier 1: Stickbow. Take a stick, carve it down (couple of minutes game-time?), and attach a string. Lowest power, worst accuracy, smallest range.

Tier 2: Flatbow. Take a log (piece of firewood?), carve it down (should take significantly longer than stickbow) Decent power, decent accuracy, decent (at least 30 meters) range. Best bow you can make on your own.

Tier 3: Compound bow. Only found as loot spawn. Highest damage, highest range, highest power.

Also, you shouldn't be able to draw a bow and hold it back as easily as we do. With the exception of compound bows, which "take" most of the draw weight, using a bow is usually "aim, then draw and shoot quickly", because you personally are holding a lot of weight. Compounds are more of "draw, aim, aim some more (using sights), then shoot).

Totally agree on the different tiers of arrows and bows, though I wouldn't mind a recurve (horse bow or 3 piece).

As to compound archers, we always make fun of them at our club with their training wheels (cams), cheat sight (peep sight), cheat release (release aid) and the fact you could have a cup of tea while a compounder aims...

[Whyherro123 2283]

Totally agree on the different tiers of arrows and bows, though I wouldn't mind a recurve (horse bow or 3 piece).

As to compound archers, we always make fun of them at our club with their training wheels (cams), cheat sight (peep sight), cheat release (release aid) and the fact you could have a cup of tea while a compounder aims...

Now now, I actually kind of enjoy using a release aid with my current fiberglass flatbow, because I have rather dainty, soft hands, and I would rather not lose my fingertips to my handmade bowstring. However, I am currently working on a beech flatbow (I am actually looking to make a Holmegaard-style bow), and I kind of want to make a bone thumb-ring to go with it.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Just confirmed by myself, the improvised bow with improvised arrows is capable of making shots of about 30 meters or so, on a moving target.  Usually, I make my shots from closer (>15m,), but I thought, "the hell with it, lets try it out!".

 

Said shot was taken at Msta, from a hill on the west side of town, on a moving zombie about 30 m away. 

 

I was in 3rd person (in my experience, 3rd person is easier to use the bow from, as you can more easily see the ridiculous amount of sway), aimed a about 1/2 in (on my screen) above the zombies head, drew back, and released the arrow when the bow "swung" all the way to the left. The arrow sailed straight as a....well, arrow, and nailed the zombie in the neck.

 

Not bad! Now all they have to do is fix the stupid sway, add some actual bows (flatbows and such), and let us make our own arrowheads and quivers, and I will be golden.