Archery: Bows, Arrows, etc.

[Whyherro123 2283]

So, I've been fooling around with the Ashwood Bow, and I must say that I am very interested with the results. However, I have to say that the bow is horribly implemented. 

 

Namely,  THAT IS NOT HOW YOU MAKE A BOW AT ALL.

 

In real life, you carve a bow down (from almost any wood, so long as the grain is in the right direction, etc) over time, tiller the limbs, and string it very carefully. The wood will be under a lot of tension (both compression and stretching. It can explode if the limb isn't strong enough)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFTPxK2X0NA

 

This guy makes a pretty good bow from unseasoned wood in 6 HOURS, not 6 minutes. However, that bow will kill pretty much any animal on the North American continent, including people. 

In my opinion, there should be three types and two classes of bows, with varying degrees of ease-of-make, ease-of-use, and "effectiveness" (lethality, flatness of trajectory, etc)

1. Improvised bow: ie, the current bow in-game. Quick and easy to make, but very low damage, and deteriorates rapidly. Needs string and stick
2. Self-bow: Bow with carved limbs. Takes some time and effort to make, good damage, range and accuracy, but can't hold at full draw for long. Needs stick, knife, string, wax, and time
3. Longbow: Bow with longer carved limbs of different dimensions. Takes a lot of time and effort to make, longest range and damage, but can barely draw back. Needs firewood, knife, plane, string, wax and lots and lots of time.

There could also be two "classes" of bow. "Seasoned" and "Unseasoned". Unseasoned bows lose condition, so it will eventually break, (and accuracy, damage, range, etc) after every shot, as the stave starts to keep the bend after being strung. Seasoned bows don't lose condition, etc. This is pretty accurate to real life as well.

 

Also, there could be different "types" of arrows as well, to reflect a more "survivor-y" flavor of Day Z. Being able to make your own arrows would be awesome, and "authentic"

1. Burnt point: Just a wooden point, hardened over a fire. Easy to make, but deals little damage. Needs knife.
2. Knapped glass: a glass point knapped from a broken window. Good damage. Razor sharp, but can break. Needs glass, stone, glue
3. Metal point: A point filed from metal. Good damage, low chance of breaking. Needs scrap metal, file, wrench, glue.

What do you guys think?

 

[Euryon 16]

Whilst I bow to your knowledge of bow-making, I have to disagree to a point.

 

Time should be a relatively minor factor, as this is still a game. No-one wants to sit looking at their guy animate carving a bow for several hours. Perhaps a compromise?

 

1) You can spend up to an hour 'carving' a bow. If you spend the full hour, you get it pristine. 45 mins = worn, 30 = damaged, etc. You can split this time up and do 10 mins today, 10 mins tomorrow, etc.

2) The improvised bow might just be the only crafted bow, and others - composites, longbows, etc. - might be fully built items later on in development.

 

 

I do like the arrows idea - certainly the ability to carve a basic wooden arrow and harden it over fire. Not sure about attaching glass or metal though. I'd like proper arrows to be lootable, and in-a-fix arrows craftable myself.

 

Finally, I'm a big fan of the first line of your signature. First time I heard that was in a weird alternative history novel, some years ago. ;)

[ld-airgrafix 403]

Would you sit in front of your pc for 6 hours while your avatar crafts a bow?? Heck even a minute is too long.

[d.walker43 196]

So, I've been fooling around with the Ashwood Bow, and I must say that I am very interested with the results. However, I have to say that the bow is horribly implemented. 

 

Namely,  THAT IS NOT HOW YOU MAKE A BOW AT ALL.

 

In real life, you carve a bow down (from almost any wood, so long as the grain is in the right direction, etc) over time, tiller the limbs, and string it very carefully. The wood will be under a lot of tension (both compression and stretching. It can explode if the limb isn't strong enough)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFTPxK2X0NA

 

This guy makes a pretty good bow from unseasoned wood in 6 HOURS, not 6 minutes. However, that bow will kill pretty much any animal on the North American continent, including people. 

In my opinion, there should be three types and two classes of bows, with varying degrees of ease-of-make, ease-of-use, and "effectiveness" (lethality, flatness of trajectory, etc)

1. Improvised bow: ie, the current bow in-game. Quick and easy to make, but very low damage, and deteriorates rapidly. Needs string and stick
2. Self-bow: Bow with carved limbs. Takes some time and effort to make, good damage, range and accuracy, but can't hold at full draw for long. Needs stick, knife, string, wax, and time
3. Longbow: Bow with longer carved limbs of different dimensions. Takes a lot of time and effort to make, longest range and damage, but can barely draw back. Needs firewood, knife, plane, string, wax and lots and lots of time.

There could also be two "classes" of bow. "Seasoned" and "Unseasoned". Unseasoned bows lose condition, so it will eventually break, (and accuracy, damage, range, etc) after every shot, as the stave starts to keep the bend after being strung. Seasoned bows don't lose condition, etc. This is pretty accurate to real life as well.

 

Also, there could be different "types" of arrows as well, to reflect a more "survivor-y" flavor of Day Z. Being able to make your own arrows would be awesome, and "authentic"

1. Burnt point: Just a wooden point, hardened over a fire. Easy to make, but deals little damage. Needs knife.
2. Knapped glass: a glass point knapped from a broken window. Good damage. Razor sharp, but can break. Needs glass, stone, glue
3. Metal point: A point filed from metal. Good damage, low chance of breaking. Needs scrap metal, file, wrench, glue.

What do you guys think?

I agree that there should be several kinds of bows and several kinds of arrows. I also think that you should be able to find a normal bow (non-crafted one) in police stations or hunting shops once they are implemented. I also would like to add to your arrow list a stone arrowhead, this was the most common one used by Indians and other primitive peoples and would be somewhat easy to craft.

[leviathanapsu 94]

Point of fact, give me some greenwood sticks and some paracord and I can make a serviceable bow in no time flat. Around 40 to 50 pounds of pressure and just as accurate as anything you can carve. The down side is that you have to tighten everything up after a certain number of shots and every so often one of the sticks will break requiring a replacement (take the whole thing apart and rebuild it). I would say the current improvised bow is close enough. Sure it only uses one stick, but that is a minor issue for me. I will say however that I disagree with your low damage aspect on the improvised bow. (I have seen these things do very deadly force at a reasonable range of the same degree as can be expected from an inexpensive manufactured bow.) Everything else though I pretty much agree makes sense. Doubt anyone would want to take time to craft, but if the items are rare enough (Optional sinew instead of string might help too) then it is likely to simulate the work put in through the long time just searching for components.

[Whyherro123 2283]

-snip-

Currently, the in-game "improvised bow" is literally nothing more than a (thin, mind you) bent stick, tied with string at either end. You would probably get higher velocity with the arrow by throwing it.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Would you sit in front of your pc for 6 hours while your avatar crafts a bow?? Heck even a minute is too long.

Yes, I would. Because, in real life, that is what is needed. Not all of us have 30-second-attention spans.

I never said that the actual action had to take 6 hours, you literalist. Just make it appreciable, so that authenticity is nodded to.

[Whyherro123 2283]

 

 

I do like the arrows idea - certainly the ability to carve a basic wooden arrow and harden it over fire. Not sure about attaching glass or metal though. I'd like proper arrows to be lootable, and in-a-fix arrows craftable myself.

 

 

Today, I made a glass arrowhead from the bottom of a beer bottle. It took me about half an hour of real-time, and it is wide and sharp enough to cut a 2 in-wide hole in an animal (or person) Very deadly. 

The only thing is, I already know how to knap glass. It isn't something that can be picked up in an afternoon.

[gibonez 3633]

Sounds good but it also sounds like a whole lot of work for the devs for something nobody outside of a handful of players would use.

 

I know I myself ignore the bows or crossbows and will never even so much as pick one up even If I have no weapon on me and even If I did I would throw it away for the first firearm I encounter regardless of what it might be.

[soulfirez 901]

Yes, I would. Because, in real life, that is what is needed. Not all of us have 30-second-attention spans.

I never said that the actual action had to take 6 hours, you literalist. Just make it appreciable, so that authenticity is nodded to.

Yes but not all of us are dumb enough to think that would make a better game, thats right its still a game one thats aiming to be authentic not completely realistic.

They could go deeper with the idea of crafting the bow but as usual alot of what your saying would be good to be implemented but the timing of such things would have to stay within game constraints. Just looking at eating do we eat as much food as we have to in game ?? no we dont but it is a game mechanic to make it authentic eg as in we do have to eat and drink.

 

SO basicly some good ideas but tone down your expectations cause as usual you lean to the absurd more often than not..

[ld-airgrafix 403]

Yes, I would. Because, in real life, that is what is needed. Not all of us have 30-second-attention spans.

I never said that the actual action had to take 6 hours, you literalist. Just make it appreciable, so that authenticity is nodded to.

I have about 6 hours a week to play games, i dont want to spend half of that crafting one bow. I would rather go out and make a real one. Now thats appreciable.

[leviathanapsu 94]

Currently, the in-game "improvised bow" is literally nothing more than a (thin, mind you) bent stick, tied with string at either end. You would probably get higher velocity with the arrow by throwing it.

I said close enough, I never said accurate. It represents something without having to find 8 sticks of varied length, etc. The thin stick is a stand in and really doesn't matter much. If they were really that worried about being accurate or authentic, every single tree and bush could be chopped down to get an endless amount of sticks, firewood and twigs to do all sorts of things with. There is basically zero chance of the devs doing that, so I say a new skin that better represents a usable bow for the improvised bow is a very minor problem and can be ignored in favor of developing out the more advanced bow options and arrow options. Hell, I would never spend as much time in this game as it would take to find the number of sticks and rope to make a good improvised bow when the number of items it takes to make a good bow instead would be the same size or shorter list. Hell, you and I are on the same side... I just disagree with the need to have devs reskinning something when they could better be spending their time adding new and more varied things to increase the options of gameplay.

[q.S Sachiel 470]

TBH i'd rather see the complexity go into the arrows.

Appropriate tools to make variable sized heads / shaped heads. (pick mines rock & shards, screw driver refines to poor, hammer & screwdriver can get a better finish / nastier/broader head etc...

kill chickens for feathers to increase accuracy to arrows / fletch some screaming arrows

kill animals for sinew / grease to maintain weapon ala weapon repair kit.  Could also upgrade psi of string with better materials etc...

 

Server spawned arrows (particularly bolts imo) are bread and butter / best quality for standard use, but ability to fashion niche role ammunition from scratch.

 

if the time taken and animations is an issue, just make your bow, take a 3 hour break and use your imagination as to what your char is up to.   It's a survival sim sure enough ,but this isn't second life people :(

Edited July 31, 2014 by q.S Sachiel

[crazykage 1063]

agreed. but to craft all that would require a lot of various items. which would force you to forgo carrying other things you might need. What could fix this? my proposed fixes to the inventory system that implement realistic weight and dimensions, rather than arbitrary squares. IE, a pistol is NOT the same size and dimensions as a helmet or ammo can.

[DeatHTaX 1217]

 

Time should be a relatively minor factor, as this is still a game. No-one wants to sit looking at their guy animate carving a bow for several hours. Perhaps a compromise?

 

 

Prepare yourself to be assaulted by the "OMFG REALISM OR IS NOT GAeM DAYZ!!!!!!!1212!" kids

[slippery gypsy 107]

 cant even get a sawn off .22 .. doubt you will get community to agree on bow crafting logistics or arrowcraft ... which i might add in this situation most likely would be a broadhead made out of a spoon or similar

[ld-airgrafix 403]

As a kid I made bows exactly the same way, and it takes about a minute to cut of a branch and another to apply string, so I don't see who would take 6 hours to craft such a bow, perhaps a special needs person.

But I agree on arrows, they should take some time. Some towns have an engineering shop, lathes and all, how about metal needed for points, and maybe use the lathes to craft them. Last thing I want to see is H1Z1 style of having a huge amount of arrows in no time

[Whyherro123 2283]

As a kid I made bows exactly the same way, and it takes about a minute to cut of a branch and another to apply string, so I don't see who would take 6 hours to craft such a bow, perhaps a special needs person.

But I agree on arrows, they should take some time. Some towns have an engineering shop, lathes and all, how about metal needed for points, and maybe use the lathes to craft them. Last thing I want to see is H1Z1 style of having a huge amount of arrows in no time

 

And what was the poundage of your "bow"?  The draw weight? What was the accuracy like? I am willing to bet that it seriously deteriorated over time, because you didn't make a bow, you made a bent stick with some string. There IS a difference.

 

Also, I made an arrow, from glass arrowhead, feather fletchings, and a bent shaft to a completed arrow, in about an hour of work. Unbending the shaft took the longest amount of time.