What Weapons Warrant Being Hyper-Rare and/or Regulated?

[Katana67 2907]

If you are "playing" realism card on this, then you might have forgotten that Ukrainian rebels are heavily supported by Moscow.

Without help of the Russians, they would hardly sport so much gear, hence your Ukrainian rebels reference is moot when talking about DayZ.

 

I'm not playing any card, I'm indicating that military gear is widespread. You're demonstrating my point, in that we live in a globalized society/economy, with a multitude of influences dictating what is in a certain place at a certain time.

 

And Ukrainian loyalists have all the gear I just mentioned as well either way.

[Katana67 2907]

I don't think I like the idea of regulating the number of any item across all servers... If that is what this loot management system is...

 

It encourages server hopping.

 

So why wouldn't we just remedy server hopping then?

[Katana67 2907]

Regarding weapon rarity it is nice to talk about it, although I doubt that devs will be swayed much by anything folks type here.

Also to have proper debate, we kinda would need to know, what weapons, or even weapon types,  will we be having in DayZ SA.

For example why talk about regulation of .50 cals, when they might not even be in the game?

 

Why would you doubt that? They've taken multiple suggestions and made them reality, even my humble AK-101 suggestion was taken into consideration.

 

We debate the weapons based upon their capabilities, then we have a sense of how they should be implemented if at all. Hence the discussion. People assert every day that X should be rare. Well, I'm here to ask why people think X should be rare.

 

EDIT - Sorry for the multiple un-quoted posts, just got home from work and can't really be arsed to comb through the thread in one sitting.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Katana67

[hombrecz 832]

I'm not playing any card, I'm indicating that military gear is widespread. You're demonstrating my point, in that we live in a globalized society/economy, with a multitude of influences dictating what is in a certain place at a certain time.

 

And Ukrainian loyalists have all the gear I just mentioned as well either way.

 

I would not like if Ukrainian separatists, who have their best equipment only thanks to Russia, would be automaticaly taken as some kind of norm when talking about guerilla fighters.

 

Why would you doubt that? They've taken multiple suggestions and made them reality, even my humble AK-101 suggestion was taken into consideration.

 

We debate the weapons based upon their capabilities, then we have a sense of how they should be implemented if at all. Hence the discussion. People assert every day that X should be rare. Well, I'm here to ask why people think X should be rare.

 

EDIT - Sorry for the multiple un-quoted posts, just got home from work and can't really be arsed to comb through the thread in one sitting.

 

I would doubt that, because:

1. proper calibers are still no go from devs even when many folks voiced their displeasure about it

2. M4 attachments have magical attributes even when many folks voiced their displeasure about it

3. talks about catering for "casual" players means most likely ignoring wishes of dayz mod players

 

Don't get me wrong, I would rejoice if devs change their approach on all these things. It's just at this moment it's not all peachy.

And talking about AK-101 is only proving point 1. If only member of AK74 family would be export AK-101, it will only reinforce my opinion about devs don't listening to the people or listening only when it suits their needs for streamlining and making stuff easier for "casuals".

 

But I remain hopefull devs will change their attitude for the better.

 

Btw No problem with "double post".

Edited July 25, 2014 by Hombre

[Jamz 253]

Ammo should be much more rare than the guns themselves. As frustrating as that might be, I think it would make people rely more on melee and for that they have to get closer... Finding a corpse with an AKM and just half a mag of rounds should be like Christmas.

[Katana67 2907]

I would not like if Ukrainian separatists, who have their best equipment only thanks to Russia, would be automaticaly taken as some kind of norm when talking about guerilla fighters

 

I would doubt that, because:

1. proper calibers are still no go from devs even when many folks voiced their displeasure about it

2. M4 attachments have magical attributes even when many folks voiced their displeasure about it

3. talks about catering for "casual" players means most likely ignoring wishes of dayz mod players

 

Don't get me wrong, I would rejoice if devs change their approach on all these things. It's just at this moment it's not all peachy.

And talking about AK-101 is only proving point 1. If only member of AK74 family would be export AK-101, it will only reinforce my opinion about devs don't listening to the people or listening only when it suits their needs for streamlining and making stuff easier for "casuals".

 

I've never said that the Ukraine situation is "normal," I can't really think of any rebel/separatist/militant group that's the norm. Being a scholar of militancy, I can tell you that there's no such thing as a norm. I've only stated that it's a prominent example to be used.

 

1. This has been addressed by the developers. They're adding more calibers (see .380 ACP and the upcoming divide between 7.62x54R and .308), and tweaking the details of weapons so these calibers become "proper." I mean, what more do you want? They're doing what you/we want.

 

2. They haven't really said anything qualitative against this. In fact, in my own conversation with Rocket, he stated that weapon attachments (and moreover, weapon balance) are nowhere near where they want them to be.

 

3. No, it doesn't make anything more or less likely. Because there's no such thing as "casual" or "hardcore" players as monolithic blocs who all believe in one thing or another. They're considering the aspects of simplicity, pure and simple. From my own biases, discussion of "casual" players is a bummer. But more so because the developers make silly distinctions and hold massive misconceptions in the first place about what they believe are "casual" players.

 

The terms "casual" and "hardcore" are insanely loaded terms, which are almost never defined by the people who use them. And even when they are defined, these definitions are never wholesome or accurate.

 

I mean, they listened to us with regard to the AK-74/AK-101. They named it the AK-101 because of what was said on the forums. It doesn't get much more straightforward than that.

 

EDIT - This is amazingly off-topic now. You can reply if you wish, but I won't be replying back unless it's to discuss weapon rarity.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Katana67

[pilgrim* 3513]

I'm not playing any card, I'm indicating that military gear is widespread. You're demonstrating my point, in that we live in a globalized society/economy, with a multitude of influences dictating what is in a certain place at a certain time.

 

And Ukrainian loyalists have all the gear I just mentioned as well either way.

 

"Ukranian rebels" are (unfortunately, in my view) supported militarily and financially by Russia, and in addition Ukranian rebels have quartermasters, logistics officers, transport pools, stores, communications networks, paymasters, they have money and intelligence, how are they different from any other contemporary time-serving weaponized military political organization ?

 

But you say "even they" ? Are you assuming that the Ukranian militias.. or the Ukranian people in general, are a type of ancient primitive tribal society, that you might expect them to throw rocks at each other, but no! .. "even they" have assault rifles all over the place, as common as poor-quality cigarettes, perhaps as common as their primitive tin knives and forks ?

However - tell me how many active serving militia are contained in this organization ?

So tell me how many assault rifles they have ?

A little over 45,000,000 people live in the Ukraine

- that's forty-five million, OK ?

- so exactly what percentage of the population have assault rifles ? really ?

well - less than one person in one hundred thousand has any kind of assault rifle

You grasp of geopolitics is very thin.

 

Go to the Ukraine - it's a big place - you can drive for days, you won't see an assault rifle, the people DONT have those. Check in all the houses and all the baby carriages and all the car boots, you'll find fewer assault rifles in the Ukraine than in the USA.

 

You often mention 'reality' in DayZ. Do you suggest that 1 player in 100,000 should have an assault rifle, to 'mirror' events in the Ukraine ?

 

[edit: The individual's personal attitude is the only thing that has ever affected human affairs. European history does not hinge on calibre or camoflage pattern: we should try our best to understand what is happening in the Ukraine, before our ignorance kicks us in the face. ]

Edited July 26, 2014 by pilgrim

[Katana67 2907]

You often mention 'reality' in DayZ. Do you suggest that 1 player in 100,000 should have an assault rifle, to 'mirror' events in the Ukraine ?

 

No, I don't. So quit putting words in my mouth and making irrelevant arguments with zero causative (or even correlative) facts (other than the overall population of Ukraine).

 

Not going to sit here and continue discussing something that I mentioned in passing, about military outfits, as one example (among many).

Edited July 25, 2014 by Katana67

[pilgrim* 3513]

pilgrim, on 25 Jul 2014 - 11:22 PM, said:

You often mention 'reality' in DayZ. Do you suggest that 1 player in 100,000 should have an assault rifle, to 'mirror' events in the Ukraine ?

 

No, I don't. So quit putting words in my mouth

..//..

 

..//..

From the "realism" perspective, one need look only as far as the recent conflict in Ukraine.

..//..

I would not ever put anything in your mouth

xx

Edited July 25, 2014 by pilgrim

[Katana67 2907]

pilgrim, on 25 Jul 2014 - 11:22 PM, said:

 

I would not ever put anything in your mouth

xx

 

Right, because the fact that I put it in quotations is meaningless... and isn't used to indicate a colloquial use. /sarcasm

 

Moreover, simply because I use the word "realism" doesn't mean I am an advocate of it. I am frequently an advocate against absolute realism, and having hounded me this long with your irrelevant arguments... it should've been apparent. Going to go ahead and say it, I'm going to venture a guess and say that English isn't your first language. Because if it was, you'd be having a much easier time actually comprehending what I'm actually writing.

 

Hence why it's just... odd... as to why you're commenting on the Ukrainian political situation, when all I said was essentially "They have different camouflage patterns."

 

Glad to see that, as usual, you have nothing constructive (or even logical) to contribute. And the unfortunate thing is, I cannot argue against someone who does not wield coherent thought.

 

But you say "even they" ?

 

I also find it mindblowingly hilarious, that you're now claiming to not be putting words in my mouth, when I never said anything of the sort. I mean, just look through the thread. I didn't say the thing you're quoting me as having said.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Katana67

[boneboys 7988]

Stop squabbling, you are making yourselves look silly.

[pilgrim* 3513]

..//..

I also find it mindblowingly hilarious, that you're now claiming to not be putting words in my mouth, when I never said anything of the sort. I mean, just look through the thread. I didn't say the thing you're quoting me as having said.

 

I am sorry. I did not intend to offend you.

 

My recreational use of the English language pleases me about as much as the employment of my own procreative apparatus for it's intended purpose - it's ok dude, don't worry yourself on my account.

Edited July 26, 2014 by pilgrim

[hombrecz 832]

Going to go ahead and say it, I'm going to venture a guess and say that English isn't your first language. Because if it was, you'd be having a much easier time actually comprehending what I'm actually writing.

 

 

On that account I'd like to say, that you are certainly not making things easier for us.

I fully understand you are trying to make complex aguments, but I think those could often be made in less elaborate way.

 

Bear in mind that game is being developed in Czech republic, developing team is multinational, it is to be expected that level of English will vary a lot on these forums.

 

I'm trying to say that if you can make your argument in a simpler way, it might be the best way to do it.

If we were having this discussion at College in US or UK, then the situation would be completely different obviously.

 

I'm not trying to say your logic or arguments are bad, it's just that sometimes simple might be better :).

[Katana67 2907]

Now that we've got a robust weapon lineup (which I feel will be relatively complete once we've got the pump-actions in the game), I feel it's becoming more and more necessary to have a distinct "high-end" (in terms of weapons and gear) towards which players can strive.

 

We're already seeing this with things like the M4A1 spawning at helicopter crashes, and it is likely that we'll see more extreme examples of this once the proposed "loot management system" is implemented.

 

I've taken the liberty of assessing the two most likely candidates for the initial implementation of a "high-end" weapons lineup, based upon what we've got already and what we know is coming down the pipes (i.e. the SVD). Likewise, I've added another for your consideration.

 

SVD

 

- 10 round magazine, 7.62x54R*

- PSO-1 Scope*

- Potentially paintable furniture

- Potential for a higher-magnification optic

- Potential for a camouflage netting treatment*

- Potential for a bipod

 

PKM

 

- 100 round magazine, 7.62x54R*

- Potential for optics

- Potential for paintable furniture

- Potential for bipod

- Potential for looted ammunition links

 

OTs-14-1A

 

- 30 round magazine, 7.62x39*

- More just a cool looking party piece

 

But I think the PKM and SVD are our best bet at initial implementation.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Katana67

[gibonez 3633]

I would love the stalker approach to the weapons.

 

Any non native weapon is regulated using the global loot system. With some weapons spawning only a few dozen at a time.

 

Western weapons heavily regulated and thus made rare and Eastern origin guns and ammo made far more abundant.

 

The main thing that should be regulated by the new hive system though is optics.

 

All optics should be controlled even red dot sights should be made rare and any magnified scopes should heavily restricted to be made really rare and valuable.

Edited August 4, 2014 by gibonez

[Katana67 2907]

The main thing that should be regulated by the new hive system though is optics.

 

All optics should be controlled even red dot sights should be made rare and any magnified scopes should heavily restricted to be made really rare and valuable.

 

The only optics I think should be outright regulated via the management system are pretty much just anything above 4x. And even then, there should certainly be provisions for hunting scopes.

 

ACOGs and PSO-1s should just be much rarer, but not regulated. And I actually wouldn't mind it if Aimpoints, EOTechs, Kobras and the like were made more common actually. That and it'd be great if some actually required batteries.

 

I just don't see them all that much (given that all of them now spawn at helicopter crashes), can only be used on M4A1s, FNXs, and MP5Ks currently, and they don't really confer all that much of an advantage over someone using irons. Whereas magnified optics actually add capability to a weapon. That and weapons like the AKs require a separate rail system to mount them (IIRC Torchia has said that he's interested in having a Docter-type sight available for the AKs).

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I would love the stalker approach to the weapons.

 

Any non native weapon is regulated using the global loot system. With some weapons spawning only a few dozen at a time.

 

Western weapons heavily regulated and thus made rare and Eastern origin guns and ammo made far more abundant.

 

The main thing that should be regulated by the new hive system though is optics.

 

All optics should be controlled even red dot sights should be made rare and any magnified scopes should heavily restricted to be made really rare and valuable.

Stalker's approach to the weapons wasn't at all realistic.

Not only were the majority of guns western, but the Walther P99 (Walker P9m) is the most common and overall most used pistol, even moreso than the Makarov.

 

Also, Stalker has a Desert Eagle, and it's not like it's a super rare find either, they're fairly readily available. I'd say that's far from realistic.

 

I actually would not complain if they added a Desert Eagle to DayZ, though, because it's one of the few semi-automatic handguns that can chamber .357 Magnum, but I wouldn't mind it being a heavily regulated item since it's a semi-auto handgun firing a powerful cartridge. (And that people would flip if such a gun were added, but I don't give a fuck)

[Katana67 2907]

Stalker's approach to the weapons wasn't at all realistic.

 

On an unrelated note, I was just going through the list of weapons from ARMA III and couldn't help but wonder why it wasn't possible/ideal to just port a few of them over. At least the models, which look lovely.

 

To my knowledge, that's what they did with the FNX. I mean, I obviously don't think that all of them should be ported over (if that's even possible/preferable)... but some of them should.

 

MP-443 (Standard-issue sidearm for the Russian Federation)

 

CZ Scorpion Evo 3 (Manufactured in Czech Republic)

 

FN2000 (Standard-issue of Slovenian army, also used by Poland and Croatia apparently)

 

TAR-21 (RPC Fort in Ukraine manufactures 5.45x39 Tavors)

 

Mk 14 EBR (US armed forces battle rifle, probably could use a new paint job to look less desert-y)

 

IMI Negev (RPC Fort in Ukraine manufactures these as well)

 

VS-121 (Izhmash modernized SVU, probably could use a different paint job)

 

But I'm sure there are multiple reasons why they're developing pretty much all-new weapons for DayZ.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Katana67

[gibonez 3633]

Stalker's approach to the weapons wasn't at all realistic.

Not only were the majority of guns western, but the Walther P99 (Walker P9m) is the most common and overall most used pistol, even moreso than the Makarov.

 

Also, Stalker has a Desert Eagle, and it's not like it's a super rare find either, they're fairly readily available. I'd say that's far from realistic.

 

I actually would not complain if they added a Desert Eagle to DayZ, though, because it's one of the few semi-automatic handguns that can chamber .357 Magnum, but I wouldn't mind it being a heavily regulated item since it's a semi-auto handgun firing a powerful cartridge. (And that people would flip if such a gun were added, but I don't give a fuck)

 

My view on Stalker might be skewd due to never having played it without mods.

 

I played it with the misery mod and from what I remember western guns were rare and the grand majority of the weapons were eastern.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

On an unrelated note, I was just going through the list of weapons from ARMA III and couldn't help but wonder why it wasn't possible/ideal to just port a few of them over. At least the models, which look lovely.

 

To my knowledge, that's what they did with the FNX. I mean, I obviously don't think that all of them should be ported over (if that's even possible/preferable)... but some of them should.

 

MP-443 (Standard-issue sidearm for the Russian Federation)

 

CZ Scorpion Evo 3 (Manufactured in Czech Republic)

 

FN2000 (Standard-issue of Slovenian army, also used by Poland and Croatia apparently)

 

TAR-21 (RPC Fort in Ukraine manufactures 5.45x39 Tavors)

 

Mk 14 EBR (US armed forces battle rifle, probably could use a new paint job to look less desert-y)

 

IMI Negev (RPC Fort in Ukraine manufactures these as well)

 

VS-121 (Izhmash modernized SVU, probably could use a different paint job)

 

But I'm sure there are multiple reasons why they're developing pretty much all-new weapons for DayZ.

The MP-443 Grach has been one that I've seriously advocated for because it's completely realistic (not that I agree with that argument, but it is better when something IS realistic) and the resources are available, because the FNX-45 is a port from ArmA 3 (or maybe the other way around). I want an MP-443 regardless of whether they use the pre-existing model, because it has a 17/18 round magazine, which would set it apart gameplay wise from the CR75. I'd prefer the 18 round magazine so a Glock 17 can be done, but either works I guess, and there are other capacities in Glocks, as well as .45 models.

 

The Skorpion Evo could probably make a good high-tier 9x19mm submachine-gun, because of how modular and how high the firing rate on the thing is. They'd definitely need to add an Eotech or shortdot (or both, :P) for it, though.

 

The F2000 is fairly interesting, could make a good rarer end bullpup assault rifle, but the devs seem more interesting in doing an AUG so who knows. The F2000 uses STANAGs like the M4 and can use new optics, so maybe it'd be the rarer one and the AUG would be common with the eternally attached scope, assuming they did an AUG A1.

 

The TAR-21 I would really like, although with an AUG and F2000 having it be 5.56x45mm would do nothing other than just add variety (which I totally support). There are some 5.45x39mm variants, so if they eventually decide to add that caliber it could be the 5.45x39mm bullpup (while something like the Groza-1 or AKU-94 would be the 7.62x39mm one)

 

The MK14 EBR I'd like but I hate the short barrel on the thing, even though it'd probably be best if they wanted to do a regular M14 or M21. I don't know why, but I've always preferred full-length M14s, the SOCOM-16s and short MK14s just don't interest me.

 

 

The Negev is a must have, they're absolutely perfect LMGs to have, alongside the M249/FN Minimi (It'll probably be an M249 for copyright reasons). Slightly off topic, but an M249 Para would be awesome, as well.

 

The SVU I like but the VS-121 is a pretty well modified version of the rifle, so they'd be better of making a new model.

 

Hell, depending on where the diversion point in the ArmA vs DayZ canon is, they might even be able to get away with having a few prototype MX rifles, being in the loot management system just for cool factor. Granted, they use 6.5mm in ArmA 3, but I wouldn't complain.

 

That, or the underwater rifles. The Heckler & Koch P11 underwater pistol would be something extremely cool once they expand on how water works, hopefully. Yeah, I know, diver combat seems super "special forces", but it would be an awesome loot management pistol.

 

 

 

My view on Stalker might be skewd due to never having played it without mods.

 

I played it with the misery mod and from what I remember western guns were rare and the grand majority of the weapons were eastern.

Using mods isn't really a fair comparison, unless you actually compare it directly to the mod (although it loses some validity at this point because mods usually aren't official)

 

I mean, I'm sure once modding is available a lot of the stuff that was made intentionally unrealistic to benefit the overall gameplay will be changed for an extremely hardcore or realistic experience, but there will also be plenty of people that make it ten times as unrealistic.

I'm excited to see what people who mod for DayZ actually do, because if it's done like ArmA then we might have some really interesting mods, or just massive packs of weapons, which I can't complain about either.

 

Sorry that my grammar is fairly deplorable and I'm pretty much rambling for the whole post, I'm very tired while posting this.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Chaingunfighter

[Katana67 2907]

The SVU I like but the VS-121 is a pretty well modified version of the rifle, so they'd be better of making a new model.

 

Meh, it's still a standalone weapon system from Kalash Concern (vice KBP/TsKIB SOO which makes the SVU).

 

Both would be wonderful! But in all honesty, I doubt we'll see either. With the SVD itself coming in, I don't really see a need for an SVU aside from just for the cool factor (which is all good with me). Because that's sort of how Russian/Eastern weapons roll, their "special" versions aren't really any better than their "normal" counterparts (i.e. OTs-14-1A/AKM, SVU/SVD, AN-94/Everything, etc.) Which could be an interesting way of having "high-end" weapons. There aren't many bullpup DMRs out there, so it'd be more than welcome either way.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Katana67

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Meh, it's still a standalone weapon system from Kalash Concern (vice KBP/TsKIB SOO which makes the SVU).

 

Both would be wonderful! But in all honesty, I doubt we'll see either. With the SVD itself coming in, I don't really see a need for an SVU aside from just for the cool factor (which is all good with me). Because that's sort of how Russian/Eastern weapons roll, their "special" versions aren't really any better than their "normal" counterparts (i.e. OTs-14-1A/AKM, SVU/SVD, AN-94/Everything, etc.) Which could be an interesting way of having "high-end" weapons. There aren't many bullpup DMRs out there, so it'd be more than welcome either way.

I'd honestly welcome any weapon they added to the game, even if it were something as extreme as an XM8 or XM29 OICW. Granted, I see no gameplay benefits and it would definitely "feel" odd, but there's nothing I can really argue for why they shouldn't be in the game that would actually be compelling, because the XM8 was for all intents and purposes a futuristic looking M4, that is actually less customizable than modern M4s (which is part of the reason why they didn't use it), and the XM29 is really just an M4A1 with an M203, just built into some Aliens-type weapon system, so gameplay wise they wouldn't be "OP".

 

Granted, yes, if they were to stray THAT far from realism it would start to irk me, even though there are plenty of people who are already upset with guns like the M4A1, even though they're not at all out of place, even realistically speaking. It's just not a compelling argument in any way to affect development, at least for me. I appreciate realism as much as anyone else, you just can't make it the sole (or even most important) factor regarding the game when you're trying to create the best experience possible. (And the devs do, too.)

 

 

On topic, I can see why the SVU would be nice, I just meant that the VS-121 that they made is fairly distinguished from the actual SVU, so they'd be better off just making a new model (that, and reusing content is not something I'm too fond of. I'm not going to complain, but it's just a pet peeve of mine. CS:GO, which is a really fun game, set me off because of how much is reused from Left 4 Dead 2)

But I can see why an SVU would be cool. There's also the fact that it utilizes the same magazines as the other guns, and because the devs seem to want to try and give most items multiple uses, it would always help to have magazines that can be used more than once. This honestly has to be done with the M4A1 mags, considering how many of them there are, it would be so pointless to have them ONLY be utilized in the M4.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Chaingunfighter

[cels 43]

Hello there

 

I'd like all rifles/pistols to be rare and ammo even more so. Improvised weapons should be the norm IMHO.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

 

 

This definitely.

 

Crafting a bow or sharpening a stick(or just swinging a piece of wood like a club) should be the norm.. Finding any firearm should be very rare. Finding ammo should be as well and in very limited amounts compared to now. Im saying 2 or 3 bullets, not a box of 20 or whatever. You should have to sit and think if you want to waste a bullet on firing.. Not go around not caring, firing in the air and at whatever because youre sitting on 300 rounds. Thats not very hardcore or survival-ish imo.

Edited August 6, 2014 by cels

[Katana67 2907]

This definitely.

 

Crafting a bow or sharpening a stick(or just swinging a piece of wood like a club) should be the norm.. Finding any firearm should be very rare. Finding ammo should be as well and in very limited amounts compared to now. Im saying 2 or 3 bullets, not a box of 20 or whatever. You should have to sit and think if you want to waste a bullet on firing.. Not go around not caring, firing in the air and at whatever because youre sitting on 300 rounds. Thats not very hardcore or survival-ish imo.

 

I disagree. I don't want this to be a caveman simulator (forgive the reduction, I recognize this isn't what you're saying verbatim). Firearms are not only a part of everyday society in a variety of contexts, but they're a part of the zombie survival genre. Almost to an inseparable level.

 

Now, do I think you should be able to find 100-round boxes of 7.62x51 everywhere? Of course not.

 

But do I want to have firearms in general to be so uncommon as to render their use completely useless? Absolutely not.

 

There's a middle-ground to be found here, and we're not that far away from it in what we've got now. It's a middle-ground between making firearms viable and making the act of using firearms consequential. All it requires is tweaking, in my opinion.

 

That and the main benefit of a melee weapon and bows, is the fact that they're either silent... or do not require ammunition (or both in the case of melee weapons). They should be there to have a specific role, just like anything else. Not to categorically replace firearms.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Katana67

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I disagree. I don't want this to be a caveman simulator (forgive the reduction, I recognize this isn't what you're saying verbatim). Firearms are not only a part of everyday society in a variety of contexts, but they're a part of the zombie survival genre. Almost to an inseparable level.

 

Now, do I think you should be able to find 100-round boxes of 7.62x51 everywhere? Of course not.

 

But do I want to have firearms in general to be so uncommon as to render their use completely useless? Absolutely not.

 

There's a middle-ground to be found here, and we're not that far away from it in what we've got now. It's a middle-ground between making firearms viable and making the act of using firearms consequential. All it requires is tweaking, in my opinion.

 

That and the main benefit of a melee weapon and bows, is the fact that they're either silent... or do not require ammunition (or both in the case of melee weapons). They should be there to have a specific role, just like anything else. Not to categorically replace firearms.

The materials for crafting the bow should be more readily available, though. Sticks should definitely be available pretty much anywhere in the wilderness, and sharpening them would only need a basic knife.

Guns & ammo definitely need to be made rarer once we're through with the alpha and beta, but not to the point that they're marginalized or can't be used to a useful extent. I don't think that's the path that we're going down, otherwise they wouldn't have added high-capacity, including 40/60 round magazines for the M4A1 and a 75 round drum for the AKM, if they didn't intend for those to ever be used.

 

Hell, I doubt they would've ever added select-fire weapons to begin with. Maybe the AKM or M4A1 could've gotten by, but if they really wanted it to be this "You only have like 2-3 bullets at one time" thing, then why have they been focusing on adding so many weapons at all? They really wouldn't have needed to add anything but the initial weapon sets, .45 ACP for the pistol, 5.56 for the AR, 7.62 for the bolt-action rifle, and 12 gauge for the shotgun. But no, since then, they've added .22LR (a short pistol and rifle hunting cartridge), .380 ACP (compact handgun, submachine-gun, and PDW cartridge, mainly for self defense), 9x19mm (another pistol/submachine-gun cartridge, like .45 ACP), .357 Magnum (pistol/revolver/rifle cartridge), 7.62x39mm (SKS/AK47-based rifle cartridge), and it seems like 7.62x51mm is going to be split into .308 and 7.62x54mmR, we may get 5.45x39mm & .410 gauge, and 40mm grenades will also be added at some point.

Why all the detail if guns aren't meant to be a focus? What's the point of the attachments? Why is spraypainting guns a thing?

 

 

Honestly, besides shotguns & dedicated long-ranged platforms (both of which have a few weapons in the works), we have an acceptable list of guns. And yet, it seems like almost every major update we get 2-3 new weapons, and it doesn't seem to be slowing down.

So you'd be very hard pressed to convince me that's the way the game is going (or has gone), let alone should be.