Night Time Play & exploit Poll

[trev186 389]

Hi,

 

So the current state of game play at night on stable is that it is not nearly as dark. This makes traversing the map possible without a flashlight. A Flashlight may still be required if inside a building or trying to find items on the ground. 

 

Overall I liked the old very very dark night time more. It made it scary and difficult when playing without gamma. But the new night time is also nice and makes game play a little more fluid.

 

Enter the problem and my reason for the poll. The brighter it is at night the WORSE the gamma exploit situation has become. I believe the devs made the right move but I still feel in a game as punishing as Dayz players are hesitant to play at night time when they know others can gamma up for a HUGE advantage over them.

 

This was evident the first time my friend and I tried to play at night with no gamma and it was as black as ink out. We ran along the tree line and a sniper from across the air field managed to snipe my friend when we stopped. i could not even see my friend and I was 5 feet away from him. 

 

That ended our night time play without gamma. Now under the old night time which was super dark even with gamma up there were areas of the map that were still very dark and you could blend in the darkness to hide and to hunt. 

 

My favorite type of game play in this game is as a "Night Stalker". I have gathered two sets of clothing for day and night. My night set makes me near impossible to spot as long as I dont run out into the middle of an air field runway.  However with the gamma exploits you can see me as clear as day as if the sun was out.

 

The fact that night time play can be trivialized to the point of making night mean you just play in black/white as opposed to color has chased the majority of the dayz community from enjoying the night time play in Dayz. Arguably this has the most potential for immersion and horror and forces players to adapt to a new situation. 

 

Sadly several posts here and elsewhere on dayz on the subject of gamma/brightness from the devs have stated they cannot/will not fix the issue. I hope this poll will cause you to reconsider. 

 

This exploit and in game option is ruining a portion of the game and also makes future items such as "night Vision Goggles" pointless...

 

i will be the first to say that when I play at night I gamma up. Not because i want a distinct advantage over others but quite the opposite....if i do not I am basically playing with one hand behind my back.

 

also while the night time is now brighter...it is near impossible to blend in the darkness at night from gamma exploiters. 

Edited July 12, 2014 by trev186

[Irish. 4886]

Well, there are my votes.. 4-2-4

Edited July 12, 2014 by lrish

[trev186 389]

Well, there are my votes.. 4-2-4

 

Good man! We should all aspire to be like u 

[newberryes 40]

2-2-4. I wish gamma exploit would be fixed, i also like to see more like 3-5 h day/night cycle servers. I really would like to play from morning to evening in the game, instead from 10 to 12 noon.

[hombrecz 832]

Maybe the DX10/11 rendered will make things better?

If I remember well, in Arma 3, even with gamma & brightness at max, night can be pitch black.

 

Anyway I dislike pitch black night, but I agree that everybody should play on even level in night time.

So overall I'd like a tad more brighter night, like that I could see somehow to 10-30 meters, so definitely not black & white day.

[Sharkeran 6]

4-2-4

I like the dark night. We just need to punish those gamma exploiter for having magical night vision while other actually have to see things with lights. Would fix the problem without changing the night and keep things authentic.

[irl-calibre 744]

Hi,

 

So the current state of game play at night on stable is that it is not nearly as dark. This makes traversing the map possible without a flashlight. A Flashlight may still be required if inside a building or trying to find items on the ground. 

 

Overall I liked the old very very dark night time more. It made it scary and difficult when playing without gamma. But the new night time is also nice and makes game play a little more fluid.

 

Enter the problem and my reason for the poll. The brighter it is at night the WORSE the gamma exploit situation has become. I believe the devs made the right move but I still feel in a game as punishing as Dayz players are hesitant to play at night time when they know others can gamma up for a HUGE advantage over them.

 

This was evident the first time my friend and I tried to play at night with no gamma and it was as black as ink out. We ran along the tree line and a sniper from across the air field managed to snipe my friend when we stopped. i could not even see my friend and I was 5 feet away from him. 

 

That ended our night time play without gamma. Now under the old night time which was super dark even with gamma up there were areas of the map that were still very dark and you could blend in the darkness to hide and to hunt. 

 

My favorite type of game play in this game is as a "Night Stalker". I have gathered two sets of clothing for day and night. My night set makes me near impossible to spot as long as I dont run out into the middle of an air field runway.  However with the gamma exploits you can see me as clear as day as if the sun was out.

 

The fact that night time play can be trivialized to the point of making night mean you just play in black/white as opposed to color has chased the majority of the dayz community from enjoying the night time play in Dayz. Arguably this has the most potential for immersion and horror and forces players to adapt to a new situation. 

 

Sadly several posts here and elsewhere on dayz on the subject of gamma/brightness from the devs have stated they cannot/will not fix the issue. I hope this poll will cause you to reconsider. 

 

This exploit and in game option is ruining a portion of the game and also makes future items such as "night Vision Goggles" pointless...

 

i will be the first to say that when I play at night I gamma up. Not because i want a distinct advantage over others but quite the opposite....if i do not I am basically playing with one hand behind my back.

 

also while the night time is now brighter...it is near impossible to blend in the darkness at night from gamma exploiters. 

 

the only reason its bright at night at the minute is because of the lunar cycle, when there is less moon there is less light, nothing has changed.

[Parazight 1594]

I don't really play at night because of gamma correction.  When I first started playing I tried out regular night servers.  Pretty clueless bambi at the time wondering around with just a flashlight trying to loot stuff.  Needless to say, I didn't get very far before getting waxed.

 

Anywho.... I eventually got back onto a server in the daylight and was blown away at how awesome everything looks once I really started exploring the game.  (I have a great system and can play full settings without issue) 

 

Day eventually turns to night.  I eventually got better and learned to play with the gamma settings.  Why would I not turn up gamma?  Exploit really doesn't seem like a good way to describe the logical adjustment you make to the settings.  Really, this game is about survival.  You do what you need to do to not die.  You've invested time into looting and not dying thus far, turning up the gamma/brightness hardly seems like an exploit.  Stories of hackers, bandit KOSers, killer bugs, and any number of things can kill you.  'Exploiting' the gamma almost seems necessary.  If only so you don't accidentally fall off of something and die because you can't see!

 

People call it an exploit and I've seen people take flak on forums for turning up gamma so I don't really play nighttime.  I'm one of the biggest asshole you may ever meet in game, but I'll be damned if I do anything considered a cheat/exploit.  So, the natural conclusion is to avoid night play.

 

I lol'd when I saw "too scary" as one of the poll options.  heh.  who's gonna ever check that.  >.<

I think I would reconsider night play if night servers opened up and gamma correction wasn't an option for anyone.  Seems difficult to implement, though.

Edited July 12, 2014 by Parazight

[babypuncher71 22]

Sorry to put it to you guys,but there are screens that can do this so even if they fix the game there are screens that can get rid of dark areas..

And that means the whole nite time can be changed with out exploiting..

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Sorry to put it to you guys,but there are screens that can do this so even if they fix the game there are screens that can get rid of dark areas..

And that means the whole nite time can be changed with out exploiting..

Ya, you're right 

[Sharkeran 6]

You can fight these exploit. Just punish those who run around in the dark seeing everything magically because they use gamma or other mean to see without in game light source.

[HIHBGaming 14]

4-2-4

 

It's paranoid to think that everyone out there is exploiting as well as trying to justify using it because of "Everyone else does it". 

[sabre05 351]

You can fight these exploit. Just punish those who run around in the dark seeing everything magically because they use gamma or other mean to see without in game light source.

 

By that merit lets punish people who run around with object detail on very high. Because it's a graphical feature that gives people an advantage over those with it on low.

[Sharkeran 6]

Object on very high is a feature which change the performance of the game, gamma does not. Important for toaster. Very high quality bring the vision you have in game closer to what it should be in reality, gamma exploit bring your vision far far away from what it should be in reality. Night is dark without moon, and with moon, it's still not daytime with gray. It's dark still, hard to see well, just not pitch dark. So yes, let's punish those who see when they shouldn't.

[Katana67 2907]

Only reason I use it, is because the night is unplayable for me. I can't play what I can't see, even with a flashlight. It's like my monitor is off... it's as shadeless a black as the background of this forum.

 

Always. People always say "well, you were probably playing on a moonless... starless... night." No, it just isn't so. Every time I play at night, it's unplayably pitch black. I can see the stars beaming down, and see that big ol' moon in the sky... but it doesn't make any difference.

 

If the night were actually playable, then I wouldn't use it. It certainly needs to be remedied. But now, in order for me to play at night, I have to use it... sorry. It needs to be remedied once night is made playable. And no, not asking for the typical pseudo-night that is common in many video games, essentially just a darker daytime visibility. But, it needs to be improved. By a lot.

Edited July 12, 2014 by Katana67

[KingOfTime 267]

I like playing at night, but because of the way flashlights currently work in game, it makes it quite difficult.

[TiggyPooh 134]

Only reason I use it, is because the night is unplayable for me. I can't play what I can't see, even with a flashlight. It's like my monitor is off... it's as shadeless a black as the background of this forum.

 

Always. People always say "well, you were probably playing on a moonless... starless... night." No, it just isn't so. Every time I play at night, it's unplayably pitch black. I can see the stars beaming down, and see that big ol' moon in the sky... but it doesn't make any difference.

 

If the night were actually playable, then I wouldn't use it. It certainly needs to be remedied. But now, in order for me to play at night, I have to use it... sorry. It needs to be remedied once night is made playable. And no, not asking for the typical pseudo-night that is common in many video games, essentially just a darker daytime visibility. But, it needs to be improved. By a lot.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

Playing at night time without pushing up gamma and brightness is unplayable and just makes you a victim of your own stubbornness.

I used to do night time looting sessions with a friend on the mod and it was fun, but we was mostly played these sessions on low populated to empty servers.

 

In real life you would bolt up for the night and never go outside unless there is a life and death situation and even then it is suicide.

As soon as they bring in NVG I wont be playing night time servers anymore, because I just can't be asked to run around in the pitch black and get sniped by some NVG guy that wants to prove his skills and needs his 5-10 kills a day.

The same can be said about the gamma exploit if you want to call it an exploit. You do it and you are playing on equal terms, you don't you are just another notch on someones kill score. 

[Katana67 2907]

As soon as they bring in NVG I wont be playing night time servers anymore, because I just can't be asked to run around in the pitch black and get sniped by some NVG guy that wants to prove his skills and needs his 5-10 kills a day.

The same can be said about the gamma exploit if you want to call it an exploit. You do it and you are playing on equal terms, you don't you are just another notch on someones kill score.

 

I don't agree. For a variety of reasons.

 

One, they've specifically identified NVGs as an item that they'll be putting on their "loot management" hive system. Meaning that there'll be a fixed number of them on a hive, at any given time. So, you'll be far less likely to encounter someone with NVGs in the first place (because they're a fixed commodity, vice an endlessly respawning item).

 

Two, you're supposing that they just fix the gamma issue by making it impossible. I would rather they fix the gamma issue as well, but in tandem with making the nights playable. So that way, the gamma solution becomes unnecessary and/or not worth it because the nights are playable just by default.

 

Three, in this hypothetical situation where the gamma issue has been rectified and NVGs are now the gamma substitute, you're also missing the "make the nights playable" bit. If they make the nights playable, the advantages conferred upon someone with NVGs are measured. With the current paradigm, it's one extreme to the other. It's absolute clarity with NVGs at night versus absolute obscurity without NVGs. If they were to actually make the night time playable, then the advantages given by NVGs wouldn't be absolute. It'd give you an increased ability to see at night, not the only/entire ability to see at night.

 

Likewise, the case can and has been made that DayZ shouldn't be a wholly "fair" experience. The issue is where we as individuals draw the line on what is an appropriate level of unforgiving aspects.

Edited July 12, 2014 by Katana67

[Karmaterror 982]

This is something else dynamic lighting might help with, if the moons light can bounce properly off all the surfaces then night should look totally different. Hopefully by full release there wont even be a gamma slider. Maybe just 3 pre-set options.

 

 

Always. People always say "well, you were probably playing on a moonless... starless... night." No, it just isn't so. Every time I play at night, it's unplayably pitch black. I can see the stars beaming down, and see that big ol' moon in the sky... but it doesn't make any difference.

 

But but....yeah ok lets not go over old ground lol. Lets just say it is possible for it to be pitch black under specific IRL conditions. So I would like to see pitch nights in, maybe just say 25- 30% of nights. That way some nights you would have to swap server for a playable night. That would have a natural drawback of being separated from your camp, but could also give you a chance to find a part or something that's rare on your home server atm :)

 

As soon as they bring in NVG I wont be playing night time servers anymore, because I just can't be asked to run around in the pitch black and get sniped by some NVG guy that wants to prove his skills and needs his 5-10 kills a day.

 

One good thing with the mod was that a lot of snipers didn't work with NVG, I think the only one that does atm is the dmr. Maybe they could do nvg as super rare, and a scope that works with them insanely rare lol. Global item economy could keep it in check maybe :)

[UltimateGentleman 355]

This is something else dynamic lighting might help with, if the moons light can bounce properly off all the surfaces then night should look totally different.

 

Hopefully they add that soon I'd like to play through a night when the game day is shortened, I don't really want to play in the ridiculous darkness for like 8 hours with nobody else on it's not scary it's just annoying.

 

I can see at night just fine even with starlight IRL, it's easy enough to see once your eyes adjust they should add that to the game. The brightness etc does change as though your eyes were adjusting but it should take like 5 min and to greater effect.

[Grimey Rick 3417]

Sorry to put it to you guys,but there are screens that can do this so even if they fix the game there are screens that can get rid of dark areas..

And that means the whole nite time can be changed with out exploiting..

 

Would you care to link us to one? I have a $3,000 monitor that won't do it, nor have I heard of one. But I'm always willing to learn something new.

 

I voted 4, 2, 4. I realize that I'm a moving target at night time as I move around with my head lamp, but I don't care. I, too, am disappointed how they removed the pitch blackness from night play. People tend to forget that true night time is black as pitch. Here in Atlantic Canada, you don't go outside at night with 1) a good excuse, and 2) a flashlight. You can't see ten feet in front of you, even on a clear night with a full moon.

Edited July 12, 2014 by Grimey Rick

[TiggyPooh 134]

I don't agree. For a variety of reasons.

 

One, they've specifically identified NVGs as an item that they'll be putting on their "loot management" hive system. Meaning that there'll be a fixed number of them on a hive, at any given time. So, you'll be far less likely to encounter someone with NVGs in the first place (because they're a fixed commodity, vice an endlessly respawning item).

 

In my opinion these NVG's will be difficult to acquire and the majority of NVG owners will be the most competitive players, with a ruthless play style.

I've seen this on the mod were NVG's are rare and usually owned by some guy on sniper hill with the best sniper weapons in the game.

 

Two, you're supposing that they just fix the gamma issue by making it impossible. I would rather they fix the gamma issue as well, but in tandem with making the nights playable. So that way, the gamma solution becomes unnecessary and/or not worth it because the nights are playable just by default.

 

I can't recall " supposing" anything or made any suggestions, but if I was to make a suggestion then they would be to fix the gamma issue on the client side of the program. How I am not entirely sure, but I can imagine that it can be coded to reduce the gamma effect depending on the night time cycle on the server. Sure someone will figure out how to counter that effect and change the code, but then we are talking about changing the code and that makes it a detectable offense.

 

 

Three, in this hypothetical situation where the gamma issue has been rectified and NVGs are now the gamma substitute, you're also missing the "make the nights playable" bit. If they make the nights playable, the advantages conferred upon someone with NVGs are measured. With the current paradigm, it's one extreme to the other. It's absolute clarity with NVGs at night versus absolute obscurity without NVGs. If they were to actually make the night time playable, then the advantages given by NVGs wouldn't be absolute. It'd give you an increased ability to see at night, not the only/entire ability to see at night.

 

Yes, of course finding a playable compromise is always best, but NVG are way beyond anything you can do to keep it on a somewhat equal level.

With NVG you are on the very top of the food chain on a night time server and we may just as well bring in IR scopes for daytime play too.

The only reason anyone would advocate for the introduction of NVG is because they have experienced how superior they are compared to normal night time vision. 

Doesn't matter though, it has been mentioned they will be introduced and they will make those that have them OP nighttime stalkers. 

 

Likewise, the case can and has been made that DayZ shouldn't be a wholly "fair" experience. The issue is where we as individuals draw the line on what is an appropriate level of unforgiving aspects.

Edited July 12, 2014 by TiggyPooh

[AlphaDogMeat . 493]

Crank the gamma up all the way and tell yourself that you're "just levelling the playing field".

But you'll know you're simply pathetic and inadequate. And so will everyone else.

[rickyriot 1009]

I like multiple choice polls when the answers are mutually exclusive. It means I can tick every box and submit my votes. :)

As for night time, people want an easy life and don't want to actually put in the effort to get more out of the game - hence why Lamecore still exists. No matter what you do you will always have some people "cheating", whether that is via changing the gamma in game or at the hardware level.

[Katana67 2907]

 

I don't agree. For a variety of reasons.

 

One, they've specifically identified NVGs as an item that they'll be putting on their "loot management" hive system. Meaning that there'll be a fixed number of them on a hive, at any given time. So, you'll be far less likely to encounter someone with NVGs in the first place (because they're a fixed commodity, vice an endlessly respawning item).

 

In my opinion these NVG's will be difficult to acquire and the majority of NVG owners will be the most competitive players, with a ruthless play style.

I've seen this on the mod were NVG's are rare and usually owned by some guy on sniper hill with the best sniper weapons in the game.

 

Two, you're supposing that they just fix the gamma issue by making it impossible. I would rather they fix the gamma issue as well, but in tandem with making the nights playable. So that way, the gamma solution becomes unnecessary and/or not worth it because the nights are playable just by default.

 

I can't recall " supposing" anything or made any suggestions, but if I was to make a suggestion then they would be to fix the gamma issue on the client side of the program. How I am not entirely sure, but I can imagine that it can be coded to reduce the gamma effect depending on the night time cycle on the server. Sure someone will figure out how to counter that effect and change the code, but then we are talking about changing the code and that makes it a detectable offense.

 

 

Three, in this hypothetical situation where the gamma issue has been rectified and NVGs are now the gamma substitute, you're also missing the "make the nights playable" bit. If they make the nights playable, the advantages conferred upon someone with NVGs are measured. With the current paradigm, it's one extreme to the other. It's absolute clarity with NVGs at night versus absolute obscurity without NVGs. If they were to actually make the night time playable, then the advantages given by NVGs wouldn't be absolute. It'd give you an increased ability to see at night, not the only/entire ability to see at night.

 

Yes, of course finding a playable compromise is always best, but NVG are way beyond anything you can do to keep it on a somewhat equal level.

With NVG you are on the very top of the food chain on a night time server and we may just as well bring in IR scopes for daytime play too.

The only reason anyone would advocate for the introduction of NVG is because they have experienced how superior they are compared to normal night time vision. 

Doesn't matter though, it has been mentioned they will be introduced and they will make those that have them OP nighttime stalkers. 

 

Likewise, the case can and has been made that DayZ shouldn't be a wholly "fair" experience. The issue is where we as individuals draw the line on what is an appropriate level of unforgiving aspects.

 

 

To your first point, I don't have any problems with that (even though the assertion that the "majority of NVG owners" will be death-dealers is a pretty big assumption). The same applies to every weapon in the game, and every advantageous item in terms of PvP. People will use everything to their advantage, NVGs are no different.

 

To your second, I agree. That should be an element of the solution.

 

To your third, I think you're missing what I'm saying.

 

In an ecosystem, if the apex predator is a lion and the prey is a rabbit... obviously the rabbit will be outmatched 99% of the time. However, if the apex predator is a lion and the prey is a tiger... then they're more evenly matched, with one having a slight/reasonable advantage over the other.

 

What I'm saying is that, in making night time playable... you're inevitably making the advantages given to NVG users less powerful. If I can only see targets 1m away, and he/she can see targets 500m away... there's a massive disparity. However, if I can see targets 300m away and he/she can see targets 500m away... the disparity is lessened.

 

And again, the argument can be made that DayZ isn't meant to be "fair." Wherein there's not really such a thing as "overpowered."