Incapacitation/ Kinectic knockdown discussion

[gibonez 3633]

Before we begin I must state that this is not a suggestion, many of the concepts shown and discussed in the videos are already in place in Dayz mod and stand alone although in far more inconsistent ways.

 

Let's begin.

 

I think we can all agree that in real life when a person is shot they are often times incapacitated they are immobilized in the ground and this is how most people die they die on the ground bleeding profusely and eventually succumbing to multiple organ failure.

 

What I am asking is would a more realistic take on this be a welcomed addition in dayz ? or would it be too much realism for the new players that have just joined the franchise ?

 

Currently in game a character is either able to take multiple gunshot wounds that would have otherwise incapacitated a person in real life and sprint away with only minor bleeding.

 

Or

 

They take a single shot that magically ends their life.

 

In real life the vast majority of gunshots will not immediately kill those that do usually headshots and shots to the spinal cortex in the back of the head.

 

Sadly Standalone at the moment does not do the best job of reflecting gunshots in neither a realistic manner or a consistent manner every shot can be either a kill or a player running off with only minor bleeding.

 

 

Through Arma 3 and a collection of a few amazing mods I have been testing out the incapacitation system and the kinetic knockdown system of a realism mod.

 

Incapacitation in this mod is caused by a high powered rifle, or pistol round to a vital area such as the chest , abdomen or throat. Wounds to the extremities merely injure those.

In the video above a single .45 acp round to the heart incapacitates the target, the target drops to the ground and begins to cry in pain while at the same time bleeding.

As you can see the subject would remain bleeding on the ground and depending on the type of injury and the caliber of the weapon used he will recover at different intervals.

While a big round the .45 acp is still a pistol round so the target recovers after about 8 seconds of being in the ground.

 

However if the weapon used is powerful enough and deals enough damage the subject is killed instantly.

Here are various different weapons testing this system out.

 

Notice how the 7.62 from the battle rifle instantly incapacitated the person meanwhile the 5.56 from the m16 zipped right through the person at those ranges requiring a few extra shots once he was taken to the ground.

 

 

The second mechanic that I wish to discuss is probably a tiny bit more controversial because everyone reacts differently to being shot.

 

Some people drop right to the ground when shot even if it was not a fatal shot and then quickly scoot up and sprint away to safety, some people take multiple shots while remaining aware and standing.

 

However in the mod there is a system of kinectic knockdowns, if you are hit in the chest or stomach or pelvis there is a chance to knock you to the ground this represents the shock of being instantly hit with a bullet .

In the video notice how an abdomen shot knocks the player to the ground where he still has full control of his character once he decides to stand up.

Here are two real life examples of this phenomena

.

Before anyone asks both of those people survived the ceramic plate saved both of their lives.

 

So what do you guys think would such systems add to the immersion of the game or do you think they would get in the way of fun ?

Edited April 30, 2014 by gibonez

[hiniberus 122]

I'm all for realisim, so this looks amazing and would love to have it implemented in the game :3 even better for it to be done to zombies/infected too

[gibonez 3633]

I'm all for realisim, so this looks amazing and would love to have it implemented in the game :3 even better for it to be done to zombies/infected too

 

That could be pretty amazing.

 

Zombie rushes you , you shoot it in the chest it falls but continues to crawl on its stomach trying to bite your legs.

[hiniberus 122]

That could be pretty amazing.

 

Zombie rushes you , you shoot it in the chest it falls but continues to crawl on its stomach trying to bite your legs.

 

Just about, would also make the shotguns actually useful and the 356 magnum 

[Damnyourdeadman 1045]

Well,certainly having players incapacitated,would open up the way

for new possibilities.We can witness intreasting player made interactions such as the victim begging the shooter to spare his life.

It would start a new page to survivor interactions.

 

I'm all for realisim, so this looks amazing and would love to have it implemented in the game :3 even better for it to be done to zombies/infected too

Concerning the zombies,i 'd rather give them a big percentage chance (80%) to be able to grab and knockdown the survivors when close.

This would:

1-Make the zombies a real threat

2-Drive people to using firearms than meele.

3-Make the survivors work together to survive

4-Use of extremely cautious stealth around the zombies

5-Bring the terror factor back in DayZ.

[gibonez 3633]

Well,certainly having players incapacitated,would open up the way

for new possibilities.We can witness intreasting player made interactions such as the victim begging the shooter to spare his life.

It would start a new page to survivor interactions.

 

 

Yea I thought of that.

 

Having in game incapacitation would allow for KOS to be turned into Shoot on sight.

 

Merely shooting someone as soon as you see them does not mean the player who was shot will die.

 

The incapacitated player could be bandaged and taken hostage by the shooting player or once base building and construction is in, dragged into an enclosure and kept hostage.

 

Possibilities would be endless.

[hiniberus 122]

Well,certainly having players incapacitated,would open up the way

for new possibilities.We can witness intreasting player made interactions such as the victim begging the shooter to spare his life.

It would start a new page to survivor interactions.

 

Concerning the zombies,i 'd rather give them a big percentage chance (80%) to be able to grab and knockdown the survivors when close.

This would:

1-Make the zombies a real threat

2-Drive people to using firearms than meele.

3-Make the survivors work together to survive

4-Use of extremely cautious stealth around the zombies

5-Bring the terror factor back in DayZ.

 

I agree entirely to your first point.

 

With regards to the zombies point, I'd rather they improve on the zombies and get them 'balanced' and 'pathed' properly, after they have the core aspects done, yes I'd love to see this. Along with the ability to use one-handed firearms (pistols?) a-la 'final stand' CoD style park (sorry, best example, only played MW2 on brother's PS3 a few times) 'till you actually get up. 

[DMentMan 707]

i like this, beans for you  :thumbsup:  :beans:

[Damnyourdeadman 1045]

Yea I thought of that.

 

Having in game incapacitation would allow for KOS to be turned into Shoot on sight.

 

Merely shooting someone as soon as you see them does not mean the player who was shot will die.

 

The incapacitated player could be bandaged and taken hostage by the shooting player or once base building and construction is in, dragged into an enclosure and kept hostage.

 

Possibilities would be endless.

Then banditry play-style would be redifined,and split them in 2 sub-categores.

-The first would just rob the incapacitated player for his/her possesions and let them be.

-The second would prefer finishing off their incapacitated victims without taking their chances(victim recovers to have vengance).

 

I agree entirely to your first point.

 

With regards to the zombies point, I'd rather they improve on the zombies and get them 'balanced' and 'pathed' properly, after they have the core aspects done, yes I'd love to see this. Along with the ability to use one-handed firearms (pistols?) a-la 'final stand' CoD style park (sorry, best example, only played MW2 on brother's PS3 a few times) 'till you actually get up. 

Well,it goes without saying that the priority is first to fix the zombie pathfinding.

The final stand is reallisticly supported and all,but personally i wouldn't wish to be implemented.

Because basicly we are encouraging the shooter and the victim to come

closer and decrease the "survivor=loot chest" mentality.

If last stand was in,then the shooters would just execute the victims in fear of drawing a sidearm. 

[gibonez 3633]

If last stand was in,then the shooters would just execute the victims in fear of drawing a sidearm. 

 

The last thing could be changed and I thought should be changed to state where you are just knocked out on the ground but can recover quickly

 

You shouldnt be in a position to fight from that position.

 

Should be like having your wind knocked out, your entire screen goes blurry and pulsates red for a few seconds and then begins to come back when you get up on your feet.

[xalienax 621]

 

Concerning the zombies,i 'd rather give them a big percentage chance (80%) to be able to grab and knockdown the survivors when close.

This would:

1-Make the zombies a real threat

2-Drive people to using firearms than meele.

3-Make the survivors work together to survive

4-Use of extremely cautious stealth around the zombies

5-Bring the terror factor back in DayZ.

This zombies grabbing and knocking down people is going to be horrible if they still outrun us everywhere including indoors, on hills, and on normal ground- combined with the lunging attack it will make getting nearly any aggro without 2 or 3 gunmen covering you a death sentance. im all for a challenging experience but i can see this after the first 30 minutes becoming pure aggervation.

[randomspawn 215]

I think it is the ONLY real way to do it. We have peeps here saying zeds are hard, some say they are easy if you got skill. Well, the truth is, if you hit a zed in the arm with a fireaxe he would lose an arm or fall down or something, instead of having a splash of blood and then attacking you more. I agree a brain-shot to kill them, but each hit I nail on him should diminish his ability to attack. I am not sure we will ever get to the point of actually seeing a player or zed lose an arm though.

 

We need 'knockdown' type moves, both for PVE and PVP. It is how it happens in reality. Most fights end up on the ground, especially if no guns are around.

[gibonez 3633]

 

I uploaded a video showing how it looks and works with a 7.62x51 rifle shot from 800m.

 

The gut shot takes the person out and makes him bleed profusely.

[Damnyourdeadman 1045]

This zombies grabbing and knocking down people is going to be horrible if they still outrun us everywhere including indoors, on hills, and on normal ground- combined with the lunging attack it will make getting nearly any aggro without 2 or 3 gunmen covering you a death sentance. im all for a challenging experience but i can see this after the first 30 minutes becoming pure aggervation.

Preciesly,what i'm inteding,then we would eradicate all the lone wolves (which is the majority play-style,myself included)

Well hey,if you wish to be a lone wolf you can still be able to (with extereme stealth and a good silencer).

If the final product is something close to what is depictided in the video below,i would be content....

[xalienax 621]

The mod zombies dont out run you and you can use terrain/buildings to break aggro. this does not work in SA, if thier are taking you to the ground with 80% frequency they will be stupidly OP. if it comes to that i'll just play the mod.

 

Im all for makeing the game a challenge, but alienating/eliminating entire playtyles is bad.

[Damnyourdeadman 1045]

Don't forget that DayZ is inteded to be an intense survival simulator.

Zombie survival is far from easy and would require people to work together in order to survive.

Yet that is not the case in SA,each survivor carries a thousand clips each that are rarely wasted on zombies.

In case of a real zombie outbreak,you wouldn't let a horde of 20 zombies get close so that you can bash them to death with an axe.

If we want to make the best of this game we need to make serious changes because this just isn't right.

[liquidsnake 275]

Yes please. Large calibres should knock people to the ground, not knock them out (all the time) or magically kill them instantly (except for headshots). Even a makarov shot to the chest should always knock the player down, nobody keeps standing while enduring the pain of a punctured lung, let alone a shot to the heart. A shot to a vital organ like the heart should knock the player down and probably knock him out with death following to simulate bleeding out. A shot to the general torso area and head should always knock down. A shot to the arm/leg should only cause bleeding. 
Not sure about this one, though, should 9x19/9x18 knock an armoured player to the ground? My initial guess is no. 

[teapot156 79]

I think it's a good idea. From a realistic, game-play, and practical implementation standpoint.

[massacrorBKK 64]

Completly agree and gave my beans...

 

Dayz would be a smart game when not only headshot tactic paid off.

 

We could use efficiently some tactics like suppressive fire (where you shoot just for your opponent to stay on cover by fear of being hit by one single bullet) or fire in the legs (often use for stop a enemy with some body protection as long as the legs usually got the less protection).

[kingbritain 63]

How about yes!

[FranzdieKanallie 3]

A damagesystem that differs between calibers and injuries is - in terms of making the Standalone as realistic as possible - a must-have.
 

[gibonez 3633]

not a single person saying no.

 

This is unlike my other threads feels weird...

[xalienax 621]

lol. +1 to OP tho. I really like the idea as long as it's well-done and in a semi-relistic way, not som b-grade action movie rip off xD.

 

Ive seen many games and mods try to do varying forms of "shock" and knock back from hits of different kinds. Most fail miserably and either give you an animation thats WAY to long or takes total control away from the player compleetely. Notice that even the soldier hit near the humvee was able to scramble inot the vehicile almost imeditley after being hit? if they can make ti where it just knocks you down or make makes you roll a bit as you get knocked down depending on WHAT hit you, that would be awesome. if ti becomes an anoying "locked" animation where im forced to watch my caracter flounder like a fish because a bullter landed near me and the came decided to register it.. that will become more anoying then it's worth.

Edited April 30, 2014 by Sovetsky

[teapot156 79]

gibonez crosspost to reddit, bravo go.

[taco86 156]

Before anyone asks both of those people survived the ceramic plate saved both of their lives.

 

The round on the first dude was not stopped by a plate...  You can clearly see the dust being kicked up after he was hit, meaning that at least a portion of bullet passed through him and struck the ground.  lvl 4 ceramic plates will completely stop a .30-06 AP round at point blank, which is well beyond what he was probably shot with.

 

The second vid is very famous, and the lvl 4 plate certainly did completely stop the steel core 7.62x54r bullet fired from a little over 100m.  He dropped because he just had about 2,000 ft/lbs of energy distributed across his chest via the plate.

Edited April 30, 2014 by taco86