Supported Shooting - How Should It Be Done?

[Katana67 2907]

I think the current bipod implementation, and potential future implementation, has been largely undiscussed. While I value the bipods in DayZ actually making a difference (versus the mod where they did nothing), I still feel that they're lacking in a few key areas.

 

Chief amongst which, is they require a player to be prone. Following that, is the lack of flexibility inherent in this paradigm, wherein players cannot fire from supported positions effectively in a myriad of locations (i.e. inside of buildings, off of ledges, etc.)

 

I do not want bipods, necessarily, to follow the BF implementation whereby they become rooted to specific surfaces. Perhaps this would be appropriate with dedicated bipods like the ATLAS and any fixed bipods on weapons.

 

However, I think there should be another option for supported shooting that is relatively flexible in terms of positioning. This is not a dedicated suggestion, but merely food-for-thought in terms of discussion.

 

Shooting Sticks. I think this would be a good, and largely convenient way of implementing a more flexible "supported shooting" mechanic into DayZ without a reliance on the prone use of bipods.

 

Kneeling

 

 

Standing

 

 

This would allow for a relatively easy and simple crafted item to be implemented (would require rope and two/three looted wooden sticks, already items included in-game) which could have a set-up time/animation in order to provide a portable (yet fixed when deployed) position from which a player can engage targets from a supported position.

 

Similarly, it can be tailored by the user to fit certain parameters. As it is now, it's very difficult to shoot out of most windows given the faculties of ARMA's shooting mechanic. Being able to fire from a supported position, well within a building, is necessary in my opinion.

 

Likewise, the developers wouldn't have to go through the trouble of implementing the cumbersome BF-style bipod deployment system.

 

I also wouldn't mind if a tripod (able to be used whilst kneeling) were to be a dedicated looted item. Such as a tripod w/ Hog Saddle already put together.

 

 

How do you think they should implement supported shooting? My personal feelings on the matter are detailed above, but I'd like to see how you'd want bipods/monopods/supported shooting to work in-game.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Katana67

[Electi 149]

Give that dude - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au3-hk-pXsM#t=43
and also, i think that's beside it, we need to change a shooting mechanics, because now it's not realistic 

[Deathlove 2280]

Yeah bipods need to be worked on for sure as they add a large support roll in certain gun types and play styles. If anything the bipod should make me see above the grass at least when im snipping from ground lvl..... >.>

[Damnyourdeadman 1045]

Player crafted bipods made from sticks sounds like a very good idea to me.

Of course,they will come with certain drawbacks compared to the industrial ones.

[real meatshield 424]

i can get behind this idea. both sniping with functional bipods, and supported shooting (window ledges, walls and the like) ought to be added. would that require an alternate stance system? im not a dev, i have no clue, but i would be very happy indeed to see this implemented.

[Katana67 2907]

i can get behind this idea. both sniping with functional bipods, and supported shooting (window ledges, walls and the like) ought to be added. would that require an alternate stance system? im not a dev, i have no clue, but i would be very happy indeed to see this implemented.

 

That's sort of why I chose my "shooting sticks" approach, as it is (in my opinion) the approach which is the "easiest" to implement in terms of development. The items to craft it are already there. It's a player-deployed item which doesn't require a reworking of surfaces (a la BF). And it only requires two marginally tweaked stances (perhaps a different animation if they want to include horizontal rotation) just to match the kneeling or standing positions with shooting sticks.

[real meatshield 424]

Yeah, the kneeling and sitting animations are already in the game, would just need to adjust the character models to accommodate holding a weapon. standing sticks might be a little much; they are awfully cumbersome IRL as it is, and legitimately would require another model in game. but sitting and kneeling could probably be tweaked appropriately to make sticks, walls and windowsills viable as shooting supports, i would think.

[Katana67 2907]

Yeah, the kneeling and sitting animations are already in the game, would just need to adjust the character models to accommodate holding a weapon. standing sticks might be a little much; they are awfully cumbersome IRL as it is, and legitimately would require another model in game. but sitting and kneeling could probably be tweaked appropriately to make sticks, walls and windowsills viable as shooting supports, i would think.

 

Accommodating a way of standing and shooting from a supported position is essential in my mind, kneeling/sitting in the Standalone often times isn't enough to clear most window sills and ledges.

 

I think the standing shooting sticks wouldn't be all that hard to animate, really just requires a re-placement of the arm/hand and a bit of angle to the player's lean.

[Zarniwoop 1193]

I like the way the ACE mod does it for ArmA2. Pressing Shift and Space next to a low wall props it up against it, giving you more stability and recoil but less maneuvering with a neat little icon.

A very early video but the escence of the idea.

 

Craftable bipods are also a very good idea.

[Irish. 4886]

All one has to do is turn to Arma 3 to get a glimpse of what BIS will bring... 

 

And not to be a pisser, but this should be in suggestions, no?

[gibonez 3633]

It should be done exactly like it is done in ACE mod.

 

SPACE + Shift lets you rest your weapon on a surface if it detects one, or deploys bipod.

[Katana67 2907]

And not to be a pisser, but this should be in suggestions, no?

 

Up to the moderators, this thread is intended to spark discussion, not to directly propose one particular mode of implementation, hence why I reference that in the OP. Likewise, Bipods are already implemented, yet the way in which they have been implemented hasn't been thoroughly discussed (in my opinion).

 

My Battle Rifle thread was left untouched, whilst the GPMG/LMG thread was moved to suggestions.

 

Sort of a grey area when you're intending to discuss potential implementations of something. Not a suggestion, yet it doesn't pertain specifically to the game as it stands.

[Katana67 2907]

I like the way the ACE mod does it for ArmA2. Pressing Shift and Space next to a low wall props it up against it, giving you more stability and recoil but less maneuvering with a neat little icon.

A very early video but the escence of the idea.

 

Craftable bipods are also a very good idea.

 

 

It should be done exactly like it is done in ACE mod.

 

SPACE + Shift lets you rest your weapon on a surface if it detects one, or deploys bipod.

 

Honestly, if both can be done easily, great.

 

But I'd rather have it be a craftable item, which allows for fixed shooting (i.e. that has to be consciously set up), and can be used independently (i.e. the player creates his/her own shooting platform).

[Zarniwoop 1193]

Honestly, if both can be done easily, great.

 

But I'd rather have it be a craftable item, which allows for fixed shooting (i.e. that has to be consciously set up), and can be used independently (i.e. the player creates his/her own shooting platform).

 

It can be consciously be set up in the manner you said, using sticks etc etc, or deploying the bipod and then using the neat ACE system for it. That'd be great IMO.

[gibonez 3633]

Honestly, if both can be done easily, great.

 

But I'd rather have it be a craftable item, which allows for fixed shooting (i.e. that has to be consciously set up), and can be used independently (i.e. the player creates his/her own shooting platform).

 

I'm not sure if I read your comment right but you wan't is an unrealistic restriction on the player where he can only rest his weapon if he posses certain items aka shooting sticks.

 

Correct me if I read you wrong.

 

eitherway any part of the map should be  a viable resting spot anything from the side of a tree, to a rock formation to a window or a table.

 

There are lots of mods in arma 3 and of course ace mod that do this they simply detect geometry that is stable and fixed then allow the player to deploy on it.

 

ACE method is particularly awesome because It allows you to drop your backpack and then use your backpack as a shooting platform .

[Katana67 2907]

I'm not sure if I read your comment right but you wan't is an unrealistic restriction on the player where he can only rest his weapon if he posses certain items aka shooting sticks.

 

Correct me if I read you wrong.

 

eitherway any part of the map should be  a viable resting spot anything from the side of a tree, to a rock formation to a window or a table.

 

There are lots of mods in arma 3 and of course ace mod that do this they simply detect geometry that is stable and fixed then allow the player to deploy on it.

 

ACE method is particularly awesome because It allows you to drop your backpack and then use your backpack as a shooting platform .

 

Given the choice between having a system which recognizes surfaces (which I suspect would be a bitch to implement properly in the Standalone) and a system which allows the player to place a crafted supported firing position anywhere he/she wants, I'd choose the latter personally. Also considering the development workload involved, which could be different depending on how they approach the two systems.

 

If both can be done, great, like Zarniwoop said. My particular concern, and the concern of this thread, is the lack of flexibility inherent in being rooted to the ground or being prone. If a supported firing position depends on pre-existing surfaces, then it'd be pretty difficult to fire from within a room (unless there's a table or chair pre-rendered in the building already).

 

Being able to place an item wherever the player wishes, versus being confined to the surfaces in the game, is more attractive to me. But again, if both are feasible, great. Not opposed to either.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Katana67

[gibonez 3633]

Given the choice between having a system which recognizes surfaces (which I suspect would be a bitch to implement properly in the Standalone) and a system which allows the player to place a crafted supported firing position anywhere he/she wants, I'd choose the latter personally. Also considering the development workload involved, which could be different depending on how they approach the two systems.

 

If both can be done, great, like Zarniwoop said. My particular concern, and the concern of this thread, is the lack of flexibility inherent in being rooted to the ground or being prone. If a supported firing position depends on pre-existing surfaces, then it'd be pretty difficult to fire from within a room (unless there's a table or chair pre-rendered in the building already).

 

Being able to place an item wherever the player wishes, versus being confined to the surfaces in the game, is more attractive to me. But again, if both are feasible, great. Not opposed to either.

 

 

Why not both the ace method allows deploying tall bipods that you can then attach your weapon to.

 

I highly doubt a system that recognizes surfaces is a bitch to implement simply because of how fast the arma 3 method was released it took them like a month to make.

[Katana67 2907]

Why not both the ace method allows deploying tall bipods that you can then attach your weapon to.

 

I highly doubt a system that recognizes surfaces is a bitch to implement simply because of how fast the arma 3 method was released it took them like a month to make.

 

I just said both would be alright, multiple times. But given the choice between the two, I'd pick a craftable and place-able item because I view it to be more flexible (in terms of being able to be placed anywhere), rewarding (through being a crafted/looted item), and also flexible in terms of navigating around the pre-existing environment rather than being a slave to it.

 

Again, both would be alright.

 

From what I've seen of the ACE system, it's pretty unpolished. The weapons move around just the same as if they were unsupported (horizontally), save for the recoil being lessened.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Katana67

[gibonez 3633]

I just said both would be alright, multiple times. But given the choice between the two, I'd pick a craftable and place-able item because I view it to be more flexible (in terms of being able to be placed anywhere), rewarding (through being a crafted/looted item), and also flexible in terms of navigating around the pre-existing environment rather than being a slave to it.

 

Again, both would be alright.

 

From what I've seen of the ACE system, it's pretty unpolished. The weapons move around just the same as if they were unsupported (horizontally), save for the recoil being lessened.

 

go give the mod a try .

 

It is anything but unpolished.

[Katana67 2907]

It is anything but unpolished.

 

Again, what I'm seeing leads me to believe otherwise. Lrn2disagree.

[gibonez 3633]

Again, what I'm seeing leads me to believe otherwise. Lrn2disagree.

 

I meant it more in a way for you to try the mod not to disagree with you.

 

I think you would really dig the mod and as a complete package its pretty darn amazing. It has all of the features the community wants out out of an arma game yet bohemia forgets or does not want to add.

 

Give it a try if you can you will probably have a ton of fun once you get past the learning curve.

[Katana67 2907]

I like to think of ACE as an interesting thought experiment, rather than a "what ARMA should've been".

[gibonez 3633]

I like to think of ACE as an interesting thought experiment, rather than a "what ARMA should've been".

 

 

If you havent already try it .

 

Sooooo much fun and most of all its so rewarding.

 

Things simply behave how you would expect them to in real life.

 

Bullets are deadly, explosives are nasty and shoot out sharpnel, there seems to be more tactical freedom.

[Katana67 2907]

More food for thought, I think this might actually be easier to implement than shooting sticks. Just a monopod, really only requires two animations/stances.

 

[irishroy 1347]

bump.

This should be added.

It would work like a bipod, but:

- with less "mobility" (~45-60°),

- should take up 1x2 slots in he inventory

- can't be directly mounted on a rifle/the new pistol, and needs to be "built up" before use for 2-3s

 

 

When persistent objects, like backpacks, are implemented, these could stay after a server-restart, too.