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Perma-identity. Nickname is permanent. Nickname as face. Cover face - conceal nickname.

making dayz harder

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Poll: What do you think about this? (604 member(s) have cast votes)

What do you think about this?

  1. Bullshit. Hope it never gets into DayZ standalone. (39 votes [6.88%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.88%

  2. Not very good. (24 votes [4.23%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.23%

  3. Can't decide. Seems ok and doubtful at the same time. (52 votes [9.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.17%

  4. I like it. (163 votes [28.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 28.75%

  5. Definitely a must have for DayZ standalone. (289 votes [50.97%])

    Percentage of vote: 50.97%

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#1 -=PA=-Mikhail

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 04:11 PM

*
POPULAR

This feature is a part of a collection of features about "How to make DayZ harder"

Vote it up on Reddit too - http://cp.reddit.com...k_is_permanent/

I really hope Rocket sees this and follows my logics. I feel it’s a huge feature. Having permadeath surprised everyone, but together with permaidentity it will produce even more effect on everyone.

PROBLEM #1
  • Player changes nickname at any moment. :facepalm:
  • Has no face. :blink:
  • Nothing unique per person. :(
Social aspect in game is destroyed.
Requires out-of-the-game communication\organisation\socialisation

PROBLEM #2
I remind some of the core DayZ principles:
  • Authenticity :thumbsup:
  • No player action judgement. :thumbsup:
Bandit-skin feature destroys these two principles and is ineffective. :o

BANDIT SKIN FEATURE ANALYSIS:
Spoiler


SOLUTION TO BOTH PROBLEM #1 AND #2

Spoiler


________________________


So far a most discussed and pretty fair drawback:

People are not ready to accept and abstract metaphorical transition of face function to nickname.


Many people just can't sacrifice the ability to always have their nickname private and be shown on demand, lie about their names, and have all the anonymity advantages of being able to trick, scam and pretend. When I tell them "COVER YOUR FACE" and do all you want, they say that with a mask everyone will loose their trust and kill on sight.

And this fact is a crucial point where I say "It is awesome and authentic", but they say "It is unfair and restricting freedom"

I feel their pain, but paying this price will equal all players possibilites and finally introduce social life to DayZ. Fair price, useful sacrifice. Huge future possibilities and immense underlying effect on DayZ Universe. Continuing DayZ with such complete anonymousity and changing names at will only increase the overall PvP and social disorder and ruin ingame communication and atmosphere. It is of course not a main feature for the alpha release, but this must be definitely dealt with with this feature or a better idea of DayZ developers.
________________________

HOTFIXES - Solutions to subsequently discovered drawbacks, disadvantages and issues.
  • Problem: Exposing identity will attract griefers and abusers, allowing them to follow you on servers and track you down.
  • Soultion (under the spoiler)
Spoiler
  • Problem: If your name and appearence are persistant even after death then you have essentially negated the entire "perma death" feature of this game. You didn't die... you're back with the same name and appearence.
  • Solution (under the spoiler)
Spoiler
  • Problem: In combat you just pretty much scan the area with yout crosshair and someone thats perfectly hidden in tall grass is now exposed
  • Solution (under the spoiler)
Spoiler
  • Problem: Some people may not want to show everyone their name.
  • Solution (under the spoiler)
Spoiler
  • Problem: Glory hunters will pursue streamers and celebrities.
  • Solution (under the spoiler)
Spoiler


______________________________________________________________

Small FAQ built upon questions and answers in this topic.
Spoiler

Edited by -=PA=-Mikhail, 20 June 2013 - 08:28 AM.
Buddy\Social lists added

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#2 The Stoned Wolf

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 04:16 PM

I like it a lot, you listening Rocket? :P
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#3 orlok

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 04:24 PM

Hello there

A player identity I like. I like it alot.

it's the player skin that's the issue. I use a custom face (and have done since OFP) which has a bloody great Union Flag on the back of my toons head, this helps ID me for SL's but unless they're damn close it's almost useless due to how the engine handles it.

I like the idea, it needs to be fleshed out though.

Rgds

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EDIT: having strong bold colours works better (ie the blue/white face thats available) it can bee seen fom a further distance, but that means your enemies can PID you too and if you stick out you're first to go down.

Edited by orlok, 21 October 2012 - 04:25 PM.

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#4 kebman

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 04:31 PM

I'd like perma-identity with changeable nicks. If they were to do anything, then let people choose one face, and stick with that, for instance. But I think part of this internet thing is getting to choose who you can be at any given moment.
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#5 -=PA=-Mikhail

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 04:39 PM

I forgot to mention you have 1 or 2 days before your nickname gets permanent. Before that, you can change it any way you like.
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#6 Dancing.Russian.Man

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 04:57 PM

Seems like you have thought about this a lot.
I'd be very happy to see this in the standalone.

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#7 James Ashwood

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 05:30 PM

I've seen better concepts for Identification.

Character customization is something that is probably coming with the standalone at one point or another, it's a frequently requested feature and a very logical one at that. It could help a lot with the identification problem, along with more variance in clothing.

Being forced to play with the same Nickname/Face doesn't sit right with me and it kinda contradicts the whole 'perma death' scenario because you're forced to be the same person after death. I think you should have to create a new character each time you die, that includes choosing a new name.

But I like the idea of being able to hide your face and avoiding identification that way.
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#8 run4way

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 05:59 PM

Good idea. Could find only one cons - if nickface will be permanent, glory hunters will pursue streamers.
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#9 aksuduud

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 06:01 PM

Seems pointless.

#10 Raged

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 06:05 PM

Yes. Definitely.

I miss the times when the suggestion forum was flooded with well crafted ideas like this one. :beans:
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#11 wolfstriked

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 07:36 PM

I actually hate the skins aspect for reasons that it never works to convey if the person is good or bad.I get killed by heroes all the time and not by peeps wearing headwraps.I sometimes KOS and just wonder what type of player I just killed was.To me I would rather see a choice when you start the game like when your asked male or female.

Male/Female
Good\Evil

Then make two sets of skins you can find with them being for either good or evil players only.Another idea I think would be kool is to make say 5 skins that get more and more badass as you kill more of the opposing type of players.Be honest and agree with me that if you had a level 5 bandit skin(10 kills per level) that was a ghillie suit with a hockey mask and then get killed you would feel much pain! :)
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#12 Dallas

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 07:40 PM

Killing someone in self defense will only label you as a bandit for a short while, however you chose to solve all conflicts by the way of the gun, you bandit status will soon become permanent.

The bandit shemagh offers an solution, where you're covering up your identity, but at the same time identifies you as a possible murderer. IF you look at the post-apocalypse lore, the raiders, bandits and marauders are often easy to recognize. As they become more dehumanized, they'll dress to intimidate and decorate their strongholds with heads on sticks.

As long as players are able to switch servers, it's impossible to earn a reputation as a mass murderer, because you're not tied to a specific location and you're victims are also just randomly joining servers. While it's not realistic that bandit parades around with with a bandit indicator wrapped around their heads, nor is it realistic to exist in several seperate, but identical universes. Without any indication of humanity, we'll see KOS mentality accelerate out of control. We've already seen this twice.

Despite having hero/bandit skins, no one is completely safe and bandits can still cover up, using camo clothing and ghillie suits. Some players will kill anything irregardless of skin, but others will think twice before shooting anyone, who's not visibly a bandit. I never shoot other survivors, I don't shoot bandits wearing camo clothing/ghillies, I always kill head scarfs instantly, not even caring if they are massmurderers or a suvivor with one self defense kill. If you're a survivor with a single self defense kill, you shouldn't been in the larger cities anyways. You should be scavenging in the wilderness, regaining your survivor skin at 2500 humanity.

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#13 uptime

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 09:55 PM

I think the social system will be better. I mean: you can add people to your friend-list and after that you can see their names in game (and servers where you have friends), even if they change the name.

But if you put on a mask - your friends can't recognize you. But they will shoot to each man in mask, i think. If you was killed by your friend who without mask - you get a message about him. If he was with mask - you will not know his name.

Edited by uptime, 21 October 2012 - 11:35 PM.

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#14 Dartendal

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 02:04 AM

As long as players are able to switch servers, it's impossible to earn a reputation as a mass murderer, because you're not tied to a specific location and you're victims are also just randomly joining servers. While it's not realistic that bandit parades around with with a bandit indicator wrapped around their heads, nor is it realistic to exist in several seperate, but identical universes. Without any indication of humanity, we'll see KOS mentality accelerate out of control. We've already seen this twice.

I agree witht he first part of this paragraph, but not the second. (The indication of humanity) For the time I've played (Fourish months?) when bandits were forced to wear that hat, and had the heartbeat when you looked at them, is about the time I started playing. In that time, I've almost exclusively encountered KoS, private hives aside. I believe the only reason it's different on private hives, is because of the servers with side chat.

IMHO, humanity indicators will do nothing to help that situation. There's nothing to do after gearing up. There's no reason to be with other players, aside from defending yourself from other players, or attacking other players. There's no goal that requires multiple people. Everything you can do can be done solo. There's no reason to be friendly to people, outside of your trusted friends. Most of the time, majority is KoS. If you try to be friendly, you can end up getting killed, which I don't believe is wrong. But, there are no ways of subduing a person with a guarantee of the other player's survival. And if the person turns out to be hostile and fires at you, a lot of people will defend themselves.

Just my feelings and observations on that.
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#15 -=PA=-Mikhail

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 03:36 AM

having strong bold colours works better (ie the blue/white face thats available) it can bee seen fom a further distance, but that means your enemies can PID you too and if you stick out you're first to go down.

I suggest the size and the transparency of the nickname is changed respectively to the distance. I'll make some concept art screens to illustrate this. Basically, your nickname must not get bigger than your body. If it's unreadable, than it's not shown at all. It's a matter of design.
If you fear of being exposed with your nickname - quickly hide your face if you are in the battle so that you are not exposed at close range. If anyone is fighting or in the fight, then participant are meant to hurt and kill each other. This is not the place to show your face :)


I'd like perma-identity with changeable nicks. If they were to do anything, then let people choose one face, and stick with that, for instance. But I think part of this internet thing is getting to choose who you can be at any given moment.

I can't see problem here. In fact, I introduce a feature for you to get protected from exposing your identity. Hide your face and be Zorro or whoever you like. No one will know your name. Show your face only to whom you trust. This adds drama and tension to your survival, this makes you bear respoinsibility and enjoy consquaences of your actions. If you think it over, you will understand how brutal DayZ may get with this feature.
It's not the Internet thing. It's a game with strong survival elements at the breakdown of social order. Basically survival is about trying to restore your social and physical conditions to be able to act and live as a human further. So you can't be anonymous all the time. Social life is an immense part of this scenario.


1) Character customization is something that is probably coming with the standalone at one point or another, it's a frequently requested feature and a very logical one at that. It could help a lot with the identification problem, along with more variance in clothing.

2) Being forced to play with the same Nickname/Face doesn't sit right with me and it kinda contradicts the whole 'perma death' scenario because you're forced to be the same person after death. I think you should have to create a new character each time you die, that includes choosing a new name.

3) But I like the idea of being able to hide your face and avoiding identification that way.

1) Yes. No doubt a wide variety of clothing and customization can bring some uniqueness to players, but only when you have played and "levelled up" enough to have a good choice of clothes. In the very early periods of playing everyone (counting hundred thousands) will be just the same cloned baseball cap man. And following your logics means you will positively identify somebody dressed in a certain way. I think it's obvious you can meet a player with same outfit. Trusting outfit is not reliable. You judge a book by it's cover. And concerning the social aspect. How can you make friends with a combination of customized outfits? It's the person, personality that you meet with. Real nickname makes it possible ingame without Skype\Forum verification.

2) Dude, your not forced. Please, think about this: YOU ARE the same person after your character dies. That's what sits right in this game. Choosing a new name everytime you die kills all the social features rightaway! It's a disaster! Not a single MMO or persistent world multiplayer roleplay game allows that for obvious reasons. All the games use the same old method very long time: "CREATE 1 CHARACTER. UNIQUE NAME. DEATH DOESN'T CHANGE THE NAME." So in the worst case DayZ must have at least this system. Let's say, 5 characters per server\world. No name change. I can accept this. But choosing name after death is unacceptable. It's agains any common sense.

3) Yes, this idea came to me, I liked it a lot and thought you guys gonna love it too.


Good idea. Could find only one cons - if nickface will be permanent, glory hunters will pursue streamers.

Wow, good point, didn't think about it, but why is it a CON? Streamer is a live TV journalist, who is broadcasting events from the world to media in realtime. They are always persued this way or that. It's their choice, their life. They are public personalities. Everyone knows their faces, names and can contact them. Choosing a path of a streamer will lead you to this very public exposure. I see no problem here. ONly a better simulation and authenticity. Thsi is very cool! Of course if half a country knows that you're standing at some street talking something and half a country can watch it live.... Well, haven't you seen some jokers jump in the camera view to make faces? Same here, but the jokers are armed. Seriously, it's aint a peaceful place with police around and civic glamour events. It's a wild freaking apocalypse and you run with camera broadcasting your location to thousands of crazy killers around you?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are you nuts?!!!!!! Get yourself a gun and run for cover you fool!


To me I would rather see a choice when you start the game like when your asked male or female.

Male/Female
Good\Evil

Then make two sets of skins you can find with them being for either good or evil players only.Another idea I think would be kool is to make say 5 skins that get more and more badass as you kill more of the opposing type of players.Be honest and agree with me that if you had a level 5 bandit skin(10 kills per level) that was a ghillie suit with a hockey mask and then get killed you would feel much pain!


Very good idea, but not that hardcore as mine, and it is a bit restricting in the roleplay freedom. But I won't mind having these two factions in DayZ outlined honestly and cleanly. With my feature, you can switch sides at any time, just go round the corner, pull on your balaclava and rob your new friends the same minute. Then take out balaclava and pretend it wasn't you. :)


I think the social system will be better. I mean: you can add people to your friend-list and after that you can see their names in game (and servers where you have friends), even if they change the name.

It a technical restriction to authentic freedom. How can you explain that you see everyones faces around, but recognize only your friends and anyone else around seems a cloneface to you? Nothing logical. But if you see everyones nicknames if their faces are not covered, you can still recognize your friends and remember others around.

If you think deeper, you suggest just a partial social system solution. Your variant still doesn't deal tiwth the problem of anonymity and clonfaces. While I suggest an immense passive social mechanism.


1) As long as players are able to switch servers, it's impossible to earn a reputation as a mass murderer, because you're not tied to a specific location and you're victims are also just randomly joining servers.
2) While it's not realistic that bandit parades around with with a bandit indicator wrapped around their heads, nor is it realistic to exist in several seperate, but identical universes. Without any indication of humanity, we'll see KOS mentality accelerate out of control. We've already seen this twice.


That's the problem I described, and that's the solution to this I suggested!

1) With this perma-identity it doesn't matter if you switch servers or not. If everyone on these forums rumour you, the "Dallas" nickname, to be a dangerous mass-murderer, then your name becomes historically active, you fame grows irrelevently of the server you play - it starts imprinting in the DayZ universe, in its History! If someone sees Dallas in front of him in this example, he shits pants, drops beans and runs away for his life. Because he read about that "Dallas massacre at EU#87" when someone named Dallas cut two dozen bandits with only a Makarov and a violent laughter on global VON....

Do you get what I mean? You can get famous or infamous. No one will ever forget you if you make a great action ingame and expose your identity.
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#16 Dedicated Greatness

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 03:49 AM

Problem there is that, Like minecraft, Once you choose your name its there forever right? Well by chance you dont like your name down the track your stuck with it, and adding the feature would not only effect dayz player base but would also effect arma playerbase.
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#17 Chabowski

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 04:05 AM

Surely if you REALLY wanted to change your name the option would be available. Rocket reads the forums, it wouldn't take long for the point to get across if it became an issue.
Nobody wants to be stuck "xXv*hollow boast regarding weapon proficiency*1337vXx" forever.

It would probably have to be a "real world" debit transaction, getting more expensive every time, to stop griefs and trolls simply switching names to avoid detection.
Either that or it would have to be limited somehow. Maybe so you can't change your name more than once in a 3 month period.
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#18 -=PA=-Mikhail

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 04:09 AM

How can it possibly have any effect on Arma? It's a totally different game with own engine. Of corse we dont speak about the mod. It is technically inferior. I'd rather forget the mod and wait for standalone.
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#19 -=PA=-Mikhail

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 04:39 AM

Surely if you REALLY wanted to change your name the option would be available. Rocket reads the forums, it wouldn't take long for the point to get across if it became an issue.
Nobody wants to be stuck "xXv*hollow boast regarding weapon proficiency*1337vXx" forever.

It would probably have to be a "real world" debit transaction, getting more expensive every time, to stop griefs and trolls simply switching names to avoid detection.
Either that or it would have to be limited somehow. Maybe so you can't change your name more than once in a 3 month period.

Yes sir, good find. I know it can get frustrating with inability to change some stupid name. With this feature being truly hardcore and me liking it a lot, I'm honest and cannot ignore this can grow a bigger problem. Permanent name for 3 months - sounds sane. But I'd increase it to 6 months! That would be both still very effective + hardcore and not that frustrating for the ones who desperately need to change name.
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#20 koze

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 05:43 AM

I don't like the idea that you can see someone's name in game (name plates). Even at a cirtain distance, I think it is still better to hide it otherwise things such as ghillie suits would be useless. You pretty much scan the area with your crosshairs and someone thats perfectly hidden in tall grass is now exposed.

Another reason is, some people may not want to show everyone their name.

I do agree with the rest of your ideas. Having permanent names/nick names would also help tracking hackers, and identifying friendlys and foes.

EDIT:

"this feature will put streamers in danger" I do like this, but I think the ability to see whos in a server should be debated about.

Edited by koze, 22 October 2012 - 05:44 AM.

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